Depleted Uranium Ammunition

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by ChelseaAko, May 22, 2011.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is biased. It is a bunch of hacks who really do not know what they are talking about.

    Oh, I looked through it. And this stuck out in my mind automatically:

    Continual usage of DU after Gulf War I on other Iraqi territories through the illegal No-Fly Zones and the major DU loaded Cruise Missiles attack of year 1998, all contributed in making the problem increasingly complex.

    OK, come on now... really? DU in cruise missiles?

    First of all, how is DU used?

    It has 2 uses as far as the military is concerned. One is in making armour that is resistant to standard munitions, like in tanks. The other is in ammunition designed to penetrate tank hulls.

    Now can anybody tell me they have heard of anti-tank cruise missiles? Anybody? Anywhere?

    I did not think so. So the use of DU in cruise missiles is absolutely laughable. But please, do not take my word for it. Here is a PR from the "International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons".

    As pointed out in our statement on the 21st March, we do not believe there is any hard evidence that DU has been used in cruise missiles. We have subsequently been contacted several times with links to articles, and in some cases documents which state that DU is used in cruise missiles. While we retain an open mind on these matters, none of these documents or articles amount to persuasive evidence that DU is to be found in these weapons.

    http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/en/a/404.html

    So here I am, useing information from an organization that wants to eliminate DU, and useing it to blast the claims of your source out of the water.

    So granted, my source is also not neutral, but at least they are willing to do some actual research, and not latch onto any silly, stupid, or crazy thing they hear.
     
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Which is exactly what you do. You say that others are wrong, but find a single biased source to say you are right.

    Well, I interestingly found a biased source that favors your side, and even it says you are wrong.
     
  3. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    not surprising. uranium breaks down into lead.
     
  4. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    i have- but it's not depleted uranium they used, it was plutonium.
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Source please? Other then a nuclear warhead, I certainly can't think of any that would qualify.
     
  6. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    that's what i'm talking about. if they had been used, there would be no denying it.
     
  7. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    No, it does not say that I am wrong, only that there is some contention over a small part of their report concerning cruise missiles.

    I am still waiting for someone here to provide some evidence that DU contamination is not a serious environmental and health problem.
     
  8. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Smart fish don't rise to the bait. :)
     
  9. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    we're still waiting for you to provide some that it's any worse than any other heavy metal.
     
  10. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I noticed some of the field measurements have no qualifiers...such as "Armoured Personnel Carrier BMB-1"....It just says "24.6"....24.6 what?

    Another table in the article lists "uR/hr" for exposure. A human can start to get radiation sickness at 500 REM. The table suggests MILLIONTHS of a REM per hour. So...in order to receive a dose just starting to effect a human at 1 MILLIONTH of a REM/Hour, one needs to be exposed for 500 million hours. (about 58 THOUSAND years).

    Also, keep in mind, distance from the source makes a difference as well.
     
  11. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that when such a basic piece of research falls into question, it can bring all of their "research" into question.

    And no, I do not state it is not a danger. However, it is not a radiological danger. It is the same danger that comes with every other heavy metal that is released into the environment.

    And look at lead. It is highly dangerous. It used to be used in everything from paint to gasoline. But this has been discontinued because of the dangers. However, it is still used in everything from tire weights, fighins weights, and boat and aircraft ballast.

    Yes, lead is deadly. It causes long term health problems and birth defects. However, it is still used in millions of things on a daily basis.

    What you will find myself and others saying is that it is no more dangerous as lead. Can you provide some hard factual evidence that this is not the case?
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And this once again goes right back to my questions about the actual research used here.

    First of all, what is a "BMB-1"? I mean, I know what a BMP-1 is. But I am unable to find anything on a BMB-1. And they give readings such as "T-72 tank", without saying where the tank was struck, and where they took the readings. Was it struck at the front, and the readings at the rear? Or was it struck at the side and the readings taken inside? Or was it struck at the front, and the readings taken right at where the DU entered the tank?

    That is not real research, that is propaganda. And it ignores the fact that the Saddam government used DU as well. The tank may well have been hit by a TOW missile, and the measurements were from the tank's own ammunition.
     
  13. Black Monarch

    Black Monarch New Member

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    Why is this under "Nuclear, Chemical & Biological Weapons"? Depleted uranium is a conventional weapon, like lead. It's not used for its toxicity.
     
  14. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    Maybe it is not intended to be toxic, but it is.

    Unintended consequences are not irrelevant, they cannot be ignored.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Lead is toxic. So is Copper, Iron, Mercury, Tungsten, and all other metals.

    Therefore, why not start a petition to ban all uses of all metals? Because all of them are toxic. Be it intended or not.
     
  16. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    Most use of toxic metals is already heavily regulated and controlled, only in military operations are they allowed to be indiscriminately spread about the environment without regard to anything but consequences of immediate concern.

    The US banned the use of lead shot for civilian hunters because lead is toxic to the environment, why should the military alone be excused to use toxic munitions?
     
  17. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where you live you most likely get your water through toxic copper pipes with toxic lead (sweat-soldered) joints. Banning lead shot was insanity.
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Most heavy metals are not regulated at all, other then in industrial uses. You can get lead very easily, and it is still used on almost ever car tire made.

    And lead shot is banned, not lead bullets. I have lead bullets (and copper jacketed lead bullets) for my pistol. And if you are into muzzle loading, the only bullet you can really use is lead.
     
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair New Member

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    Lots of folks who are posting about DU don't understand physics. All elements occurs with a mix of isotopes of that element. Carbon has C-12 & C-14 mixed together. The difference is in the number of neutrons in the nucleus of the atom. Uranium is a mix of U-238, U235, & U-234. U-235 is more easily split so it is used for bombs and for nuclear power. Depleted Uranium is uranium with the U-235 removed, leaving U-238. The amount of U-234 is so tiny that it can be ignored. DU has a half-life of 4.5 billions years. That is about the age of the earth, so that is a long time. THE LONGER THE HALF-LIFE, THE LOWER THE LEVEL OF RADIOACTIVITY. In a human life span the change from DU to any daughter element can't be measured, it is just too tiny. So there is absolutely no radioactive threat from DU. That is just leftists playing on the scientific ignorance the general public. Anytime a Western nation, especially the U.S., develops an effective weapon the left is always against it and will tell any lie to try to get that weapon banned. I am surprised that we haven't seen the left howling about the XM-25 yet.

    DU not only makes great armor penetrators, it also makes great armor. The front plate of the Abrams tank has a layer of DU.

    However, DU is a very heavy metal and has the same problems as any heavy metal. Ingest it and you can get heavy metal poisoning.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair New Member

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    Lead shot has not been banned in the U.S.
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    OK, let me clarify where lead shot is banned, and where it is not.

    In the United States, it is banned from use in all wetlands, and for use against wetlands fowl (ducks, geese, etc).

    And many other states have their own regulations in addition to this (California, New York, etc).

    Since one of the largest use for shot is birds, and the biggest bird seasons are duck and geese, this pretty much effectively bans it's use.

    http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/the-truth-vs-myths-about-the-lead-shot-ban
     
  22. Jade

    Jade New Member

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    Most countries use DU, as far as i'm aware only Germany restricts the use of DU out of all the major powers. I don't see anything wrong with it, it makes our weapons more effective, kills more enemies and saves more friendlies. DU is a lot more effective than Tugsten rounds anyways, and far more cheaper.
     

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