Did America win in Iraq?

We didn't invade Libya or Syria, only Iraq.
Our "intervention" in Syria is in the form of humanitarian aid and some weapons packages for rebels.
In Libya there were some airstrikes, and some support of the coalition that did most of the intervening.
To get an idea of the scale, on the average day in Iraq we spent more money before noon, than the combined total cost of our "interventions" in both Libya and Syria.

 

You didn't say they lost no battles. You said they completed their military objective. That's false. The military objective was to defend and secure South Vietnam to the point they could run their own state, free of influence from NVA/Viet Cong/communist forces.

They left while those forces were still in South Vietnam, and South Vietnam, in a matter of years, would fall to these communist forces.

That is a fail.

As far as "if" the generals had their way.. Well that may be. But they didn't have their way. We are discussing what actually did happen, not what would have or could have happened. The course of ANY historical event can be changed with adjustment. I wouldn't say the Titanic never sank, because if only that iceberg were a few feet further away, or if only this or if only that..

Lost the war?!?!?! "Lost" the war? Exactly! The war was lost, wasn't it?!!?!? I'm not arguing about who's to blame. Blame whoever you want. If extraterrestrial aliens intervened on behalf of the NVA, we would have lost even if the generals got their own way. If so, as unfair as these occurrences were, I wouldn't sit here saying we achieved our military objectives, if, in the end, we didn't.

I'm guessing that since you're already resorting to ad-homs, you don't have actual military objective achieved to cite to prove your case..

Yes I understand it. The commander in chief is the top in the chain of command, per the constitution. Nixon was the boss of the military. Which armchair general politicians had overridden his will?

 

Not overtly.

We are waging a covert war there, and our traitorous leadership is aiding and abetting AQ. John McCain and Lindsey Graham should be charged with treason.

I won't argue with that. Clearly, Iraq was an epic boondoggle. But Syria and Libya are boondoggles in their own right, or do you deny that AQ has become a major force in both countries since we've intervened?

 

They destroyed much of their own infrastructure, they killed thousands and thousands of their fellow civilians, and AQI size estimates are between 1 and 2K in a population of 33M, largely consists of components that are more focused on adding Syria to their imaginary Islamic sunni state, and are the problem of the ISF, not the US, and are not running amok throughtout the nation. The Kurds seem to be thriving which is what happens when you play nice with each other. In the meantime, I am sure somebody got a splinter in their finger in Iraq today so that also means the US has failed.

 

Obama should be charged with treason!

Multiple counts.

This particular count is the most blatant treason a president has gotten away with since Reagan sold weapons to Iran.

As for AQ in Syria, the White House admit that this is their strongest presence in the entire world!!! They demolish God only knows who in their secret bombardments in Yemen, Somalia etc. and they can't tell us who they targeted even after they've killed him, yet AQ fly their flag, have their own new safe-haven country in Northern Syria, and are left unmolested to conduct full-scale genocide against Christians, Kurds etc.

Who are we supposed to be at war with if not Al Qaeda.

They use the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" excuse. But they chose the wrong enemy. AQ is our official enemy. Not Assad. They could have sided with Assad to use that excuse. This is nothing short of treason. We KNOW AQ got their hands on our military hardware. Obama STILL makes sure more military hardware flows in, KNOWING it winds up being used by AQ to conduct genocide.

 

Why do you need to know?

You can't expect anyone to give personal information over the internet, thanks to the NSA collecting and abusing every scrap they can.

Anyway, you don't get to decide who has moral authority. That's my job. You can have the moral authority to post just as soon as you post some naked pictures of your wife or girlfriend.

 

McCain would have travelled to Baghdad to pose in photographs with the local suicide bombers there.

 

US reputation mangled thanks to things like Abu -Ghraib photographs, leaked war crimes evidence etc. plus at least 100,000 people killed, ancient Babylonian artefacts that date back thousands of years lost forever, a trillion dollars if not more wasted etc... And, we never found those wmd's we claimed we thought were there. Iraq could be a perfect utopia right now, and you still couldn't call it a success, with all the loss and damage that resulted. Of course, they are far from a perfect utopia, considering the continuing violence and terrorism. Your media might not tell you about all the daily carnage.

 

Since we are no longer in Iraq, the daily carnage is irrelevant to whether or not we won. We have not seized Iraq and made it the 51st state. They have to take ownership of their own issues. The reason they have not done more may have something to do with their own incompetence. For instance, we were putting security walls around neighborhoods to help protect them and better control mobility. They then decided that us protecting them with the walls made them feel like prisoners, so we stopped building the walls and, as has been seen in this thread and by your post, get blamed for violence and any other ill that anybody suffers with complete disregard of what life for a great many of these people was like before the war.

 

They use a western model of parliamentary representation. But unlike Iran, Iraq doesn't have a Islamic figurehead and council that can over rule the PM and parliament. So this is a bad example on your part.

 

we won the war, but it was a waste of $$$ and the blood and sweat of many of our children... our children never should of died fighting such a needless war... was it worth it to you?


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I'm only entitled to an opinion based on where I'm from? Where I am from and the completion of my user profile information has nothing to do with whether or not the U.S. has committed atrocities. So, again, has the U.S. committed atrocities? Do you believe the U.S. has never committed atrocities?

 

false premise. AQ was in both Syria and Libya before during and after our "interventions", it was in Afghanistan before and it's there now, and it wasn't in Iraq, but it's there now.
AQ is going to be wherever there is instability in the muslim world.

 

Ya, you just contradicted yourself.

 

The US eventually won yes, for awhile there the Iraqi's sided with foreign Islamists, but the tribes finally came around and switched to supporting the US (when they realised the islamists were indeed crackpot terrorists).

 

Not if you understand English....

 

No, you clearly contradicted yourself. You stated that AQ was in Libya and Syria before our interventions. Which is a false statement on your part, but lets skip that part, and follow on too the part where you say that AQ fills the void during periods of strife. That part is true. So do you see where you did in fact contradict yourself?

So which is it, AQ always had safe havens in these countries beforehand, or only latter after a void was left to be filled. Your post not mine bud.

 

AQ was in Syria and Libya before our interventions, because we didn't intervene until the instability was already present. In Iraq we created the instability.

 

I never said they were not in Libya or Syria before the interventions. I said they became a major force in Libya and Syria after the interventions.

Yes, and my point is that western intervention in these countries, from Iraq to Syria to Libya, has resulted in increased instability which AQ and its affiliates have exploited.

 

REALLY?!? We were LIED to about weapons of mass destruction, (which turned out to be aerial photographs of an ice cream truck or something) to get us into that mess and now one of my friends is DEAD and another will never be the same again! There are THOUSANDS of DEAD Iraqis and Americans as a result of our going over there for NOTHING other than control over Iraqi oil!

 

dude, the mods know which McDonald's you're posting from. if you're not willing to be honest about your location, how can we expect you to be honest about anything you write?

i don't think you want me to do that.

 

There's a difference between not divulging your information and lying about your information.. So the reason you need to know the location is so you can trust them? I wouldn't trust anybody irrespective of if I knew their location.. .I think it's so that people can avoid the issue and just do red herrings about nationality.

 

lies of omission make you no more credible than a bald faced liar. if you want to make any comment about another location you have to be upfront about your own.

 

Sure if you attack somebody based on their nationality then yes.

 

The fact that the Bush was forced to capitulate to the corrupt Maliki and submit to a timetable for total withdrawal without getting even one of the US military bases that was the primary reason the fraudulently-pretexted war was contrived and trillions of dollars squandered is only a consideration in a rational analysis.

If someone labours under an irrational, seething hatred of the first non-white president, it must be all his fault for honouring his hapless predecessor's agreement.