Do some people really believe that they have a "right to a job"?

I was watching "capitalism a love story" and was wondering if people still believe that they should have the right to a job? What if you aren't good at your job? Does the employer not have a "right" to fire you? I was watching this, and I literally laughed out loud, because this just seems ridiculous! Do people realize that a "right" to a job would either enslave you or enslave your boss? Logically, this is the only conclusion. If you aren't producing enough to cover the cost to keep you as an employee, your boss would have to fire you But if you had a "right" to a job, then he couldn't fire you, so he would be a slave to you (since he would be forced to run his business at a loss so that you could make more money for things you consume). However, if your boss is given the power to force you to work harder for what you already paid (so that he forces value out of you), then you are a slave to your boss. In any case, do people really think that this is moral? Who is supposed to find these jobs where you will produce more value to the world than you consume? Wouldn't individuals be the best judge of where they would work best at and produce the most value? If you are consuming more than you are producing, isn't the rational conclusion that you should either stop consuming so much or start producing more (or learning to produce more)?

Some people are saying that "you have the right to a job when you graduate college because you paid all that money for a degree, and you should be able to get a job, otherwise you are going to be screwed because of student debt!!!" Well this also has a pretty simple solution; get rid of government subsidized higher education (and privatize primary education, but give out school vouchers to everybody equally)! Now, suppose we did. Do you think google, microsoft, amazon, boeing, goldman sachs, chase, sony, airlines, big businesses, schools, railroads, construction companies, etc. are just going to shut down? No, they're going to be forced to figure out a different way to find qualified employees. Well what's a good way to do that? Oh yea, they could just hand out scholarships to high school students to go to college so that they could hopefully work for them someday (since they're investing their own profit money, they're probably going to be very careful to make sure their scholarship kid is going to have a high responsibility/high paying job when he gets out). They could also hire low skilled employees at lower wages, and give them free range to advance in the company by getting more qualified, competition would dominate. The point is, they would be forced to figure out the cheapest way (because that will maximize their profits) to find high skilled workers to hire so that they could compete with other firms (competition would also dominate in the market for workers, and especially highly skilled workers). Well right there, it seems like we just eliminated our socialist education and you made everybody better off!

I would really like to hear why people believe that they have a "right to a job". If you can give me a rational argument, you may convince me (I've changed sides on issues before).

 

So you are saying that no one in America should have a job, we should shut down all businesses, and we should all become homeless? No one should have a job?

 

I'm saying that we need a free market, not a socialist/crony capitalist run country. It just frustrates me when people say they have a "right to a job" when there are plenty of jobs out there. If they don't like the pay, then start a union, or build a better business. I just hate that everybody expects the government to do everything for them (like give them a job). What they don't understand is that maybe they aren't good enough for a job, or maybe their job is unnecessary. If it is, it is there responsibility (not the governments) to go out and figure out what they love doing and focus on being the best at it. You clearly don't understand what the law was intended for.

 

I would say a better view is everyone should have an opportunity at a job and the government should not overly get in the way of that opportunity at having a job. And this should include a fundamental right to a social safety net that is there for all citizens paid from taxes on income with a tax structure easy to use to keep the difficulty paying these taxes practical for all.

 

I agree with you. These people here that think that holding down a voluntary job is akin to slavery are ridiculous. You are correct, there is a right answer to this question and you nailed it.

 

Obviously not. He is saying there is no right to a job. Whether or not is is a good thing for people to have jobs or not is an entirely different question.

 

No, but I do believe I have some right to decent land and natural resources... the Henry George argument. If the government wants to deprive me of these, then I deserve some other form of compensation...

 

What did you do to deserve them? Should your family be able to control vast acres just because you pop out children every nine months? Be happy with all the vast public lands we have that you can visit, the wealth of public knowledge you have access to, and a sea that you can go to for resources if you have the cojones for it. All this "people owe me something for existing" is garbage. You want it, earn it like everyone else. Free lands hundred of years ago were a dangerous place to make a go of it, those people earned their land.

- - - Updated - - -

You should checkout the negative income tax:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo9ufzIXN3U

 

I find it funny how you and other people use the word "right". You say you have a "right" to land and natural resources, but how do you get those? Do you have the "right" to force somebody to drill for oil, refine it, ship it, and sell it to you at a "fair" price? Do you have the "right" to take somebody's land by force if you have done nothing to earn it? What resources do you need? Education? There are thousands of libraries, millions of websites and webpages, and thousands of youtube lectures and videos that you can use absolutely free to educate yourself. You can also purchase a book on Amazon and have it shipped to your door within a week (many of these books you can get for under $10, and if you have prime like I do, you can get it within 2 days). Using resources like the one I named, which everybody has a right to thanks to the first amendment (most people have no idea how great the right to free speech and freedom of the press is, and yet they are letting the government take that away from us slowly too with book bans, ridiculous lawsuits and "free speech zones"...more on that another time), so you have plenty of resources, maybe not natural, but resources, to get a job and make a good life for yourself. That is called the American Dream my friend.

I also didn't mean to offend you, I hope I didn't. This post was mostly for other people who attempt to pervert the definition of "right".

 

Michael Moore's movies are largely comedies. They're just not supposed to be.

 

Math tells us today that it's not really possible to give all people an opportunity for a job. We have what...10-12 million recognized unemployed and probably the same amount who quit looking or just disappeared. The economy simply is not creating enough jobs for everyone. And even if we had symmetry of 10 million open jobs and 10 million people looking for work, we'd still have 5 million of them unemployed because they don't live where the job for them might exist. IMO it is unlikely the economy will ever create enough jobs for everyone. So I'll agree that most people have an opportunity for a job but they won't find it unless they are willing to learn new skills, additional education, or even relocation to compete in the fierce job markets...

 

What about self-employment an area the government regularly interferes with. Say you in NYC and want to have your own food stand say selling cold cut subs, chips and cans of soda for the lunch crowd - good luck. In many states if an black woman wants to weave hair they need a cosmetology license even though no cutting, chemicals or other hazards are used just some basic tools and you weave hair. I could go on and on. I would say from observation most street vendors and food vendors in NYC work under the table since permits are capped all over.

 

The implied promise of our great capitalist economy has always been that if people play by the rules they will prosper. Failure to prosper can only be caused by some moral lack.
There are many people who followed all the rules, they are morally upright but somehow prosperity continues to elude them.
Many are getting a little fed up with this meme of passive acceptance since the promised rewards are not materializing.
That they turn to aggressive demand cannot be a surprise, or even unexpected.
If the situation does not improve it can only escalate.
History tells us that escalation can result in unfavourable consequences.
For who, it is impossible to tell.

 

I agree. The question is how to do it. We do not question any social program in America. We look at the intended goal, and judge it by that, not the results, not the logic, not the structure. Government programs are easy to get in place, but are harder to move then most mountains.

 

In my area the County government just created a new category of business called 'cottage business' in which people can create stuff in their homes including cooked and prepared items. All they need is to register, follow some simpler guidelines for health concerns, etc. and they cannot sell out of their homes. For example, someone can bake cupcakes in their homes and sell them at a farmer's market or through other local distribution. Some areas work well with food trucks while other areas are fighting the idea.

I'd like to see the government restart the old Homestead Act and get more people back into farming something...

 

Morality is not necessary to operate a business. It's survival of the fittest no matter how nasty this becomes as long as no one is violating laws. Some win while some lose...

 

An American citizen has the right to work. Any job one has should be based on qualifications.

As for the film, Michael Moore's films are great if you like one sided biased opinion. Personally I like documentaries that do their best to show the pro's and con's of all sides.

 

When government oversight / regulation is only to prevent fraud, collusion, and monopoly, capitalism is the best way we have to keep those that are greedy in check by others that are greedy.

Once government has more power, the greedy gravitate there. In government, when the greedy cooperate, they all benefit. We all lose.

 

Throughout all my years in school, the workplace, and in business, all my successes and all my failures, 100% of the decisions were made by me. Government taxes or regulation or laws, etc. never ever controlled my life or placed me in a situation in which 'we all lose'. I suggest anyone who feels they are a loser, or all of us are a loser, needs to make better decisions in life. Here is a guarantee that cannot be debated; if people do not control their lives...someone else surely will!

People ARE NOT a servant to government; government IS a servant to the people...

 

I live in a rural area that had no high speed internet unless it was from a geosynchronous satellite.

My son decided to used hilltop based wireless, except, the county decided that every transmitter site needed a $10K "major use permit". (The "transmitter is the size of a wine bottle, and draws less than 10W of power) That would have stopped his business in its tracks, had he followed it. We tried to talk to the county, but we weren't big enough to bother with. He decided to go ahead in violation of the regulation (which has since been overturned, thanks to the cell phone companies).

Fast forward 10 years, he has 1500, very happy customers (still no DSL or cable out here), and employs 6, (with full medical and 401k).

Even today, that major use permit would kill his business.

 

For fun, ask your son to calculate how many government fees he pays, time in compliance, etc.. I checked it out now that I am doing taxes anyway, it was twice what I pay for healthcare currently. I received a letter that says my insurance is going up soon, (thanks Obamacare!) but it is true today. I have young healthy workers here with me though, so are health care costs are less then 1% of gross sales, and I work in the fishery which is pretty regulated, but I am not even counting fishing regulations, or license fees.

 

What do we have a right to?

Do we have a right to a living wage? Who's gonna pay it?

Do we have a right to food and shelter? Who's gonna provide it?

Do we have a right to live a feral life in the woods? Someone owns the land.

We aren't free.

 

Typically a 'use or conditional permit' is necessary because someone is asking to do something which is not allowed in the current zoning, but that something might be beneficial to the area. It requires review and approval by the county and a public hearing...all of which costs taxpayer money. Whether it is $10K or $10 it is an amount which the County apparently feels is reasonable. Conversely, it would not make sense that anyone can do what your son did without some cost and approvals. If you were an adjacent property owner, you would surely want to know what others are doing, how it might effect you, etc...I know I would want to know.

That being said, it's great your son created a successful 'something'...

 

The root issue with regulations and use permits etc. is the very same people who complain about all the fees are the same people who complain about government's not protecting them. It's a damned if you do...damned if you don't situation. Citizens want government to inform them, and protect them, and allow them to be involved in everything; one community wants government to stop fast foods or signs or trucks, etc. while another community does not want any growth at all...yet if you're a fast food or sign or truck company you expect to do your business. Everyone cannot get everything they want...there must be compromise as designed in the charter of the individual governments. Where I live, if someone wanted to build a restaurant, just to deal with City water, sanitation and waste costs about $500,000 for design and permits and inspections; this sounds like a lot of money to me but then again I don't know the myriad things involved...

 

Why should people who expect a certain degree of ethics and morality in their society put up with that?