Do you think America is... well, evil?

I always think America as what the best western civilization can offer. But now I think of it, it's more like narrow-minded jingoistic bullS.

It's not just torture. It's everything and everything else. What makes America superior, or at least different, from her alleged "enemies"? What evil deeds had America not commit? We are the only country which deployed nuclear weapons on innocent civilians. We are the only country who profited through the murdering of innocent civilians and we have a whole industry of it. We shielded war criminals from both Japan and Nazi Germany so their studies and research could be further explored and exploited. We incarcerated our own civilians on mass scales based on race and origin of nation.

Are we, is America a kindhearted but retarded giant with a huge stick in his hand, or is America just an advocate and worshiper of Satan? If being able to correct oneself is what makes America "different" from "them", then what makes those countries that never did all the wrongs in the first place?

 

Continental European here.
Very interesting and very complicated question in my opinion.
I for one don't consider the US the best of what western civilisation can offer.
Based on my (limited) experience, there are certainly quite a few good things about the US, as well as things that are, shall we say "ugly"..?

Unfortunately, it very much depends on who you're talking to; a rather objective statement is probably very hard to make. A patriotic person will of course claim that America is the best thing since sliced bread, and I personally cannot count how many times I have heard "This is the greates place on earth" from an American.
My question, "What exactly do you base that statement on and how many other countries have you visited so far?" was usually ignored, or, even worse, people got really angry. That's quite pathetic IMO.
I even have been schooled on the health care system in my country by Americans who had no (as in zero) idea what they were talking about. They just wanted to make sure, their system is superior.

On a more political side.
I consider US foreign politics very belligerent. If you read Chalmers Johnson or John Pilger (to name but a few), the nation has been quite eager to go to war for many decades, or probably even centuries, which, IMO, is a problem if you consider yourself the embodiement of "good"; hence the same rhetoric over and over again "fighting for freedom, democracy, liberty, etc." Being on a high horse usually means you have to live up to these standards. If you cannot do that, that's where problems start.

What worked so perfectly in and after WWII - clear roles of "good" and "bad." Fighting the evil enemy (no sane person can argue about the evilness of the nazi system), liberating a whole continent from fascisim, establishing a new democratic system, etc. - has never worked the same way since then IMO.

I could go on, but gotta go to work now.

 

America is just a generic collection of human beings and not significantly better or worse than any other generic collection of human beings. As a nation it has, like most others, some good, some bad and a vast boring middle ground.

 

This thread has the potential to bring out the morons who believe they are intellectuals.

 

America, as a whole, isn't evil.

The evil resides in Wall Street and the military industrial complex.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The average American is no better or worse than the average person anywhere else.

 

now that is a self referential comment if ever there was one.

 

I wasn't specifically thinking of you, but now that you chimed in.......

 

Ideals are standards of perfection.

Unfortunately humans are far from perfect.

that being said, if the world requires a military/economic superpower, America in its imperfection, is a still a damn sight better than nearly every other alternative.

 

Exactly. There are certainly better places to live. This is a good one, but once one travels, you sit there and ask yourself why the US isn't as good or as pragmatic as it could be. The answer is- we have a lot of evil politicians and corporations in this country. And being pragmatic and decent does not benefit them. They play the "us against them" game and claim that you are not patriotic if you don't take their side, especially when it comes to war. And that's bad. How many years have we been in wars now? What has it done? Not a damn thing for most people. But you know what? Somebody's getting rich, while the average joe foots the bill. That is evil.

- - - Updated - - -

Right?

 

Isn't that passing the buck? Where's our responsibility lie?

We were warned by the founders that we could not be passive and maintain our republic. Also, a truly free press was an integral part of the equation. How can we act if not informed?

These days, our corporate news is in bed with the politicians, who are in bed with the bankers. Some three-way, huh?

In spite of that, the American public has at least some awareness of that things are not what they seem, but tend to ignore that or, at most, think they did their part by voting. The evidence, both at home and abroad, says that isn't enough to effect change.

We are going to have to get hit over the head with a brick to wake us from our stupor. Right now, the whole world is being re-aligned and we are caught up in petty distractions.

As my avatar, Pogo, said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us!"

 

Yep- that is the truth.

 

We are willing pawns collectively, and as individuals who see the truth, useless.

Then there are the enablers/useful ignorant.

...but to answer the question from the OP... Do you think America is... well, evil?

No! But evil will do what ever it can to imply we are.

 

[MENTION=65827]Tahuyaman[/MENTION] You could have addressed your "criticism" directly at me, which you, unfortunately, don't seem to be mature enough for.
I'm not going to explain my background to you, would be a complete waste of time.
Calling people names on the internet is what? Intellectual? Or rather moronic?
It's not very complicated to stay away from a thread if you don't like it or can't engage in a discussion.

 

I agree to an extent, but the problems we experience with government aren't that different from the problems experienced in other countries. The only difference is the level of power that our government has.

We have the world's most powerful military and the most expansive intelligence network, so those give corrupt people a lot of tools to work with.

 

WTF are you talking about now?

 

I think America is evil in a lot of ways but I have a roof over my head and enough food in my gut so that I am not totally outraged. Not particularly grateful either.

 

He's talking about you being an oaf, I think.

 

America is a heroic country which hunts down the Islamic Terrorists and shows them no mercy. We in Israel, God's Chosen People, will support America on this basis.

 

The USA has made mistakes, but even with those mistakes its a far better place to live than any other.

That's changing quickly now that "progressives" are fundamentally changing the nation into a mirror of the rest of the worlds failed nations.

 

If I interpret that correctly, what you are saying is that you can be bought off. You will accept - or at least tolerate - evil if you have some creature comforts.

That's not unique to you, that's the way people are including myself. That trait of self-preservation is also exploited by tyrants - they move far enough to advance their agenda, but not so far as to provoke a strong backlash. When people have acclimated to the new norm of less freedom and more hardship, the tyrant takes another step. Eventually the tyrant has taken enough steps that he can proceed openly without fear of reprisal.

That's exactly how Hitler and the Nazi's operated, Lenin and the Communists in Russia, Castro in Cuba, Robespierre in France. That's how the "progressives" are operating in the US.

 

I think it's safe to say that more revolutions are started by hungry people than by satisfied people, but that's not to say that there isn't a tipping point for everybody. Actually, all I expect out of any government is to keep the food and creature comforts coming in.

 

Even democracies are prone to commit atrocities during war time. Large scale war is just that— all out war, and this reflects in the civilian society. When government fears an external threat, freedoms and justice are conveniently taken away.

It was not so black and white as you might imagine. How fascist do you think the U.S. would have been if it was surrounded by all sides and had gone through what Germany went through?

 

Please tell me you are trolling.

 

An excellent slate of issues and questions! The hackneyed old truism goes, "The way to hell is paved with good intentions," and overtly the bulk of U.S. citizens almost always have good intentions; from their own perspectives, that is. But our politicians and our big league business leaders? Well their intentions are usually based on a core desire to further their self-interests (ahort or long term) and the real morality or ominous long term consequences can go hang, and it's almost always THEIR group decisions that matter; if for no other reason than because they can usually get at least the owners or influential people who own media outlets to play ball with them for current or future special considerations . . . that the general public never need to hear of or know about. So how's that?

So it's sort of an interesting scam in that the general citizen is usually quite easily convinced that the nation is either doing the right thing or that at least its 'heart' is in the right place while only the behind the scenes people and the bulk of the nation's national level politicians know otherwise.

But there are several other issues at play here. For instance, since the fall of the old Soviet Union, however, the critical lines of ethics and morality among the general population have become strained or confused. You see, in the 'old days' it was fairly simple for the average citizen to distinguish between right and wrong where international actions were concerned -- as determined by our national level politicians and behind the scenes business barons and our media outlets -- since if we did whatever was in opposition to the general actions of either the Soviets or the Communist Chinese we had -- by definition -- to automatically be doing the 'right' thing.

It really wasn't a great deal more complicated than that in its form of stark White or Black/either and or decision-sets. This was true (or seemed to be true anyway) on the whole regardless to whether or not historians would eventually determine whether or not we had indeed been doing the right thing.

But when the Soviet's Evil Empire fell with a whimper and the Communist Chinese pretty much decided to go whole-hog into capitalism we suddenly no longer had fool-proof moral guidelines telling the general public what should or should not be done on the international stage. We no longer had to save ourselves or the beleaguered western world from communism and from the endless threat of nuclear attacks in the post Cold War era everything (as far as the ethics or morality of international issues were concerned) promptly turned into what seemed to be nothing more than ever shifting shades of gray.

As the mainstay defender of western civilization we were suddenly the world's chief protector without anybody or any reason to protect any other nation any longer, and so -- just as long as we at least 'seemed' to be more or less doing what 'good guys' should normally be doing (so far as our MSM were concerned) -- we no longer had to concern ourselves with the issues of right or wrong as we KNEW that we were the good guys in world affairs -- heck just ask any politician. So how then could we BE doing bad things in the post Cold War world, yes?

In my mind, however, the crystallizing moment of almost consciously dipping our toes into an obvious act of evil as a nation, was when we let Bush and company convince us (WITH the help of an embedded-reporting slots-bribed Mainstream Media) to attack a nation that had done absolutely nothing against us; when we launched an invasion against Iraq in 2003 and then also when as a people we essentially (on BOTH the Left and the Right -- except for us war protesters, that is) we were willing to turn a blind eye to the known fact that we were using enhanced interrogation tactics.

Point blank, I don't care what rationalizations either side used to justify doing those two things (and BOTH sides DID rationalize doing them) I thought then and still think today that both actions were very bad for us in the long run as a nation of people purporting to embrace ethics and morality as major concerns.

All of which leads me (oddly enough) to a direct criticism of the Left with its already nearly universal disdain for the moral compass of organized religion and its attendant pushing of the "If it feels good then do it just as long as you are fanatics about environmental and racial issues," mantra where the youth of this nation is concerned, because if youth is raised (as they have been) to consider the issues of morality and ethics to be nothing more than the meaningless loser-worries of antique dinosaurs then as they mature they will CONTINUE with that attitude where everything else in general is concerned . . . just as in general they are already doing.

So both the Right and the Left have made huge mistakes and neither the Right nor the Left are the least bit interested in changing their ways.

Conclusion? We are doomed as a nation. Meh . . . so on to other issues.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Evil resides in the government because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Add to that the fact that the requirements to lead the government are insanely low and you have a witches brew of evil.