Donald Trump's foreign policy: 'America first'

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Shiva_TD, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    As a candidate President Trump ran on the platform of "America First" first announced in a prepared speech on April 27, 2016.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/politics/donald-trump-foreign-policy-speech/index.html

    America First is not a result of a declaration. You can't just state "America is First" and make it true. Making America First is the result of actions. Being "First" is a measurement of performance.

    When it comes to America being First in foreign policy the Trump Administration inherited America First because the United States, and former President Obama, was ranked First internationally. Less than six months in office and Trump has virtually taken America from First to Worst based upon the annual Pew Research poll that measures the leaders of 37 nations



    World Opinion Obama v Trump July 2017.jpg

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26...lics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/

    FIRST TO WORST

    In less than six months President Trump has, for all intent and purpose, handed over leadership of the Free World to German Chancellor Angela Merkel that is spearheading the defense of Europe, that will expand to all of the free world, after Trump's disparaging insults to our NATO allies on his recent foreign tour. Unlike the diplomacy of former President Obama that obtained the commitment of our NATO allies to increase their military spending in compliance with the NATO treaty in 2014 President Trump, lacking any diplomatic skills and foreign policy history, harangued these same allies with insults and threats.

    MAKING AMERICA FIRST

    While America was first as a world leader internationally there's obviously many other issues where we're not First but we could be. Not all have been addressed in the first six months of the Trump Administration but one of significance is being addressed currently.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmun...-compared-to-10-other-countries/#76b74fe576fd

    President Trump's support for the GOP House and Senate attempts to repeal Obamacare will result in over 20 million Americans losing health insurance according to the CBO resulting in a significant drop in the ranking of the US when it comes to healthcare for the American people.

    President Trump's support for the GOP repeal of Obamacare, leaving tens of millions of Americans without insurance and tens of thousands more dying, is about doubling down on "America Worst" instead of moving us in the direction from America Worst to America First.

    Trump's repeal of Obama's environmental protections regulations, withdrawing from the Paris accord on climate change, and recent canceling Clean Water regulations are going to result in more pollution, more environmental destruction, and more contaminated water in the United States. All of these actions are taking us in the wrong direction.

    We were not First in any of these categories and we're heading in the wrong direction.

    Trump actions in his first six months in office have been exclusively about making America Worst and not about making America First.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  2. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    Ah, its not all bad, you still have more guns than people.
     
  3. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Very good and full approval! :applause:

    You will surely get strong counter-words from the "I love Trump camp", some meaningfully written, much with the usual stupid phrases, but your post I can only agree with you.

    It was not just me who already said in the election campaign that this "America First" will bring the USA into a new self-isolation in the world, but how were the ranks of the Trump faction here? It is thier will and completely OK!

    It is amazing how quickly a wrong man in the White House can damage something that was built and developed in 70 years of diplomacy and US foreign policy. Since you have to be only 6 months the chief trainee in the White House and behave internationally as an elephant in the China shop and already are ...

    - the closest friends and allies heavily angered!
    - and they publicly declare that one can no longer rely on the US as a trustworthy friend and ally who stand for the word he gave!
    - it is publicly stated that the US is no longer a trustworthy partner for previously concluded agreements and treaties and will cancel all if the United States is more appropriate than adhering to what has been agreed and negotiated beforehand!
    - former enemies are again the new enemies and the relaxation is again tense!

    But again, the Trump fans are just so happy at the moment with this all... So, welcome to the New Ages, when the world is more and more giving a crap about what the US wants, because they are becoming more and more a lesser serious partner! America First ... but only within American borders in the end, because outside it is more and more an "America last"
     
  4. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no reason in hell that ALL Americans should not support America first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    No reason for all Americans not to support the self destruction of the USA? Really?
     
  6. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand what "America First" means. It means to put the interests of the nation above the interests of the rest of the world.

    For me, that notion was violated when Trump bombed Syria.
     
  7. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I'm baffled as to why Donald Trump and the Republicans don't want America to be FIRST as well.

    Why don't they want America to be first is fighting against the increases in CO2 in the atmosphere when the US was the largest CO2 producer of any country since 1960's and still has the highest per capita CO2 pollution rate of all the major countries. The US produces twice as much CO2 per capita today when compared to the Chinese. Why would we not want to be the leader in reducing our CO2 pollution as well as being the technological leader in accomplishing that? The economic benefits to the US alone would be worth being the leader of the Paris Accord as opposed to being a drop-out that fails instead of being FIRST

    Why didn't Trump and the Republicans want the United States to be the economic (FIRST) and, by default, the political leader (FIRST) in the Pacific Region? Donald Trump handed those two FIRST places over the China when he withdrew from the Trans Pacific Partnership and now China will be setting up a Pacific Free Trade Zone and we're not in it. Once again we go from First to Worst in the Pacific Region both economically and politically.

    Why wouldn't Trump and the Republicans want the United States to be First when it comes to eliminating poverty? We're generating about $18 trillion of wealth each year and it only takes about 1/4th of that wealth creation to ensure that every full time worker in America can support their family with a living wage. This isn't wealth redistribution but instead it's wealth distribution that ends government wealth redistribution (welfare) that the Republicans claim they hate. Want to cut about $300 billion in annual welfare benefits? Pass a "Living Wage" where workers can actually live off of working fulltime in America.

    What the hell, let's be FIRST in healthcare by requiring all employers provide health insurance for all full time employees (and a proportionate amount for part time employees) Republicans don't like the individual mandate and Obamacare's individual mandate for working Americans (and the subsidies) disappears if the employer's providing the insurance. Medicaid would cover the rest. We could have 100% health care coverage if all full time workers were provided for with employer group health insurance and all those not receiving group health were on Medicaid (or Medicare for retirees). We'd zoom up in world standing under the healthcare criteria.

    Why doesn't Trump and the Republicans want to be FIRST when it comes to being the most economically stable nation? We could be FIRST by collecting enough in taxes to fund all of the authorized expenditures but only if we impose a tax proportionate to net income above the cost of living. I once proposes a new income tax based upon an "exemption" established by the median income and then a tax on all income above that. No itemized deductions for the household, just the exemption. In 2013, for a balanced budget, the tax rate would have been 29% on income above $50,000/yr and zero on income below $50,000. Now 29% may sound high but it's really not when everything you need is purchased with un-taxed dollars. It even went down in 2014 because people earned more money so the rate was only 24% for a balanced budget. Why don't Trump and Republicans want a balanced budget?

    Why isn't the US be FIRST when it comes to providing asylum for refugees fleeing tyranny in their homeland that would like to come to the United States and becoming Americans because they cherish the liberty and freedom we enjoy. No one can appreciate coming to America more that someone fleeing as a refugee from tyranny.

    The interests of America are measured but the Interests of the World Nations.

    Healthcare for the people of the nation is a concern of every nation and the only way we can be FIRST is to provide better healthcare for Americans.

    Environmental protection is a concern of every nation and the only way we can be FIRST is if we protect our environment better than any other nation.

    Every nation has poverty and for America to be FIRST it must have less poverty than any other nation.

    When it comes to international trade either you're FIRST by being the economic leader that imposes the most influence in international trade agreements or your a follower or worse of all not involved at all.

    In international politics you're FIRST because the world leader because you've earned the most respect based upon your honesty, your integrity, your commitment to fairness and the trust you earn from others that believe that you will "do the right thing" whenever the need requires it. When you're FIRST, when you've earned being FIRST, then you have the influence world politics that not just benefit the United States but also all of the other world nations. It was President Truman that established the political power of the United States as the leader of the FREE WORLD because Truman was FIRST and America was FIRST internationally.

    We can look purely internally and be FIRST when it come to protecting our environment. Destroying the environment doesn't make America FIRST even if we ignore all other nations.

    Don't we want to be FIRST in America by having the fewest number of work related injuries in American history?

    Don't we want to be FIRST in America to have the highest percentage of scientifically knowledgeable graduates in American history? Trumps Sect of Education is opposed to public schools that provide the vast majority of K-12 education. She didn't even know the difference between the metrics of growth v performance in measuring school outcomes when asked during her confirmation hearing.

    If we want to be America FIRST in environmental protection, an issue so important to the American people and Congress that they created an entire agency to address it, wouldn't it make sense to employ an environmental activist to ensure the maximum protection of our environment based upon scientific research? Employing someone that's openly opposed the EPA is not how you become FIRST even in the eyes of Americans that support protecting the environment.

    Even using the most basic measurement of FIRST, the opinion of Americans, Trump and the GOP are taking us to "WORST" and not FIRST. Only 17% of Americans support the GOP healthcare bill that not only doesn't provide healthcare it results in 22 million Americans losing insurance that would pay for healthcare. Donald Trump hasn't had a positive approval rating since taking office and the last poll I read Trump had a 58% disapproval rating and only a 37% approval rating. According to the American people Trump is taking us to WORST and not FIRST.

    President Obama ended his presidency with a 58% approval rating and that's a positive approval rating indicating we were moving in the right direction, towards FIRST. Unemployment was below 5% when Obama left office and there were employment openings all over the country. Trump hasn't created a single job and every job that's been filled was because of the economy that Obama left Trump. trump managed to completely screw up any real chance of a Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement because of his absolute ignorance of history. Trump has us more involved in Syria, even furnishing arms associated with terrorism, and has accomplished nothing. We're still in Afghanistan and guess what, it's time for us to realizes that it's our presence in Afghanistan that's sustaining the conflict. If we get out we don't know which side will win but we know as long as we stay that government we imposed cannot win. The Taliban are citizens of Afghanistan and they'll never lay down arms as long a foreign military is in their country. They have a right to be there, we don't. We should have learned this is Vietnam. A foreign military force cannot defeat an indigenous population that's committed to fight until the foreign force leaves their country.

    How can we be America First in employment when we toss away a million new jobs in "green energy" to reduce CO2 emissions just to save 90,000 coal mining jobs that we'll lose anyway because natural gas, an abundant low cost by-product of fracking for oil, is replacing coal. The math doesn't add up.
     
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  8. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Being first on a bunch of global metrics...or putting America first, as in her people and interests?

    A pretty big difference of course and I think he meant the latter, and is trying to do just that.
     
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  9. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The USA is no longer self destructing which is a miracle after the past 8 years of dismal malaise.
     
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  10. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    The interest of the nation was violated when Trump was elected president because, exactly like the conservative editorial boards from across the country stated, Donald Trump was unfit and unqualified to be president. This was not liberals bad-mouthing Donald Trump. It wasn't bad mouthing at all and it came from the editors of the most conservative publications in the nation. It was the voice of deep concern for our nation and it included the leading conservative national voice, the National Review, and continued on down to the state level where, here in Arizona where I live, the Arizona Republic for the first time in it's history of over 110 years of publication endorsed a Democrat in spite of opposing her political agenda because of one reason and one reason alone. The Arizona Republic stated in no uncertain terms that Hillary Clinton was qualified and fit to be the President of the United States and Donald Trump was not fit and not qualified to be the President of the United States.

    Donald Trump has demonstrated every single day since taking office that he's unfit and unqualified to be president and we even know exactly why. The press has repeatedly brought it up, foreign diplomats have mentioned it, and it's been confirmed by distinguished professors in the fields of psychiatrists and psychology, that are not restricted by an ethics rule that only applies to practicing psychiatrists, that Donald Trump has a malignant narcissistic personality disorder as well as a paranoid personality disorder. Donald Trump's mental illness is a threat to the United States because he's literally living in a delusional world and cannot recognize reality.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...g-president-warning-open-letter-a7578831.html

    We even witness this almost daily whenever Trump media as "fake news" because the media is reporting reality but that reality doesn't exist in his delusional world.

    Donald Trump was never a good corporate executive - That's a delusional belief because no independent board of directors would hire Trump as a CEO and American banks won't even loan money to Trump because he's a horrible executive. A competent CEO would never have borrowed money for a construction project a 15% interest because it can't be repaid. Trump did and he went bankrupt. The man is a corporate idiot, not a competent executive. The White House has been in chaos since he became president because he's a horrible executive. He was great on the TV show the Apprentice because he was a horrible executive.

    Donald Trump cannot fix Obamacare and never could in the real world. Only in his delusional world could he fix it.

    Donald Trump could never negotiate better trade deals. Only in his delusional world is he a good negotiator.

    Donald Trump cannot bring back American jobs. Manufacturing jobs didn't go anywhere. Technology eliminated the manufacturing jobs. Since 1980 US manufacturing has tripled and the number of jobs has declined from over 18 million jobs to just over 12 million jobs. Three times more manufacturing production resulted in 33% fewer manufacturing jobs. Only in Trump's delusional world does more manufacturing result in more manufacturing jobs.

    It's very ironic because Trump was not elected by the people. Donald Trump was elected by the Electoral College but when created the very purpose of the Electoral College was to prevent a "Donald Trump" from ever becoming the president (Federalist 68). It's a pity the political parties later changed how the Electoral College functions for the benefit of the parties at the expense of the American people. No more are highly qualified individuals selected that work together, like a corporate board of directors, to seek out the finest and most qualified executive to lead our nation. Today the political parties choose the Electoral College members and they're obligated to vote for the party's candidate.
    http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa68.htm
     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    To be FIRST is based upon global metrics. If it's not then it's meaningless because it becomes nothing more than a declaration.

    Oh, and by the way, Trump doesn't have a clue about what American FIRST even means. Arguably the term was handed to him by one of his primary political supporters, that old has-been burnt out Republican Pat Buchanan, that started the America First Party in 2002. We're not sure where Buchanan picked up the phrase as it's being used but David Duke, the former Grand Wizard of the KKK, claims he coined the phrase and that's possible considering Trump's campaign was predominately a White Nationalist/White Supremacy platform.

    Donald Trump hasn't done anything to my knowledge that's in the best interests of the nation or the people. Apparently most Americans also agree with that considering that Trump's approval rating has never been positive and is downright negative today.

    Banning Muslims based upon national origin, that the DHS stated does not establish a threat, is not in America's best interests. The religious intolerance of Trump and his supporters is certainly not in America's best interests.

    Mass arrests for deportation is not in America's best interests. Actual deportations are actually down and there's going to be legal hell to pay for not processing the detained individuals in a timely manner. They cannot be held in limbo without access to the immigration courts and the immigration courts were already flooded by the Obama administration.

    Giving economic and political leadership to China in the Pacific region by withdrawing from the TPP was not in America's best interests. Not only did we lose leadership, we lost a small increase in US jobs that was predicated on the treaty but worse still we're going to lose existing jobs because China is going to become the prime supplier to countries where we'd been the prime supplier. These countries will get a better deal with a free trade agreement with China than they will from the US without a free trade agreement. Trump showed his full stupidity as a businessman with that F/U.

    Withdrawal from the Paris accord was not in America's best interest. We're potentially losing over one million green energy jobs, one of the worlds fastest growing industries, to try and save 90,000 coal mining jobs that are being lost because of the low price of natural gas.

    WTF has Trump done in America's best interests. How about before even taking office he managed a deal with United Technologies where Pence gave UT $7 million that UT is going to use to fully automate the Carrier Plant so it can layoff the last of the 800 workers that Trump claims to have saved their job.

    Trump hasn't done anything to improve our economy or create any jobs. Everything he's mentioned is either a result of the Obama presidency or it's corporate decisions that had nothing to do with Donald Trump.

    Trump didn't "sell" the Saudi's $110 billion in US military hardware. That was a result of negotiations by the Obama administration where the US had already committed to $115 billion in arms sales (and Trump managed to lose $5 billion of that sale somehow).

    As noted Global metrics are the only metrics that provide an accurate result.

    America cannot be FIRST if more Americans are doing without healthcare than in other nations. America can only be first if fewer Americans are doing without healthcare than in other nations.

    American cannot be FIRST in "jobs" if American doesn't have better paying jobs and more demand for labor than any other country.

    American cannot be FIRST in reducing pollution unless America is reducing pollution more than other countries.

    We can't judge America based upon America's exceptionally poor performance of the past. If you compare a dog turd to a cat turd they're both turds but if the dog's is fresher does that make the DOG FIRST. If that the criteria for FIRST then I'll give you the honor to be FIRST to eat the dog turd.
     
  12. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope that's simply wrong.

    As an example, youc an choose to be "first" in World Contributions to say Global Warming. Where you take 100 Billion dollars out of your peoples pockets every year and give it to places like Ethiopia.

    Ooooor....you can put Americans first, and keep their labor and it's fruits here at home on things they need and expect.

    This is what he promised, and what he is doing.

    No need for any global Metric and since you are dead wrong in the first sentence, and I have shown it...I'll not bother with the rest of that smokebomb.
     
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  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how the Trump fans are bluffing the truth, closing their eyes before the obvious facts, because unpredictable and then, as usual, declare the last 8 years under Obama as much worse.

    The US is dependent on good international connections, friends, allies and treaties, and thanks to George W. Bush, the US has lost a lot of credit and thanks to Bush, half the world does not have much to do with the will of the USA, especially if its own interests for the US United States.

    And then trump and pee the half world to the leg, no matter whether friend or opponents with the consequence that the influence of the USA with friend and enemy tends towards zero and which speaks of the fact that the USA no longer destroy itself? America First by Trump means in international relations more and more America Last for the rest of the world!
     
  14. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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    Given Trump's proclivity for sexual perversion I'm pretty sure he meant America fist.
     
  15. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    The Paris Accord imposed no involuntary obligations upon any nation. If the US Congress decided to give $100 billion to any other nation/nations that's a voluntary obligation that members of Congress, elected as our Representatives, decided was a necessary expenditure that benefited the United States.

    American labor is here at home, it's not going anywhere, and there's no shortage of jobs. The unemployment rate is well below 5% and that's considered to be "full employment" because less than 5% represents temporary transitional unemployment where Americans are between jobs. And where are the jobs? In the same place where most jobs have been since 1910 when agriculture stopped being the top employment category in America. These jobs are also in the largest wealth generating category over the last 100 years.

    The jobs are in the SERVICE SECTOR that has been the foundation of wealth creation and jobs for over 100 years in the United States. Manufacturing has never been the top job producer of wealth or jobs and it's only when we look at the much larger category of "Industry" that includes far more than just manufacturing that Industry ever lead in wealth creation (never jobs) and that was only for about 20 years at the turn of the 20th Century over 100 years ago.

    Our jobs aren't going anywhere and we have more than enough jobs in the right category for America. The problem isn't jobs. The problem is compensation. Unfortunately the Republicans have destroyed the "free market" solution to increasing compensation because Republicans have systematically destroy the unions that, during the 1950's and 1960's, had the economic power to negotiate higher compensation. today the only way to address the problem of low compensation in the Service Sector, that's generating about 75% of the wealth and employing about 78% of the workers, is by legislative action to significantly raise the minimum wage. Republicans destroyed the free market solution and now all that's left if the legislative solution.

    Donald Trump promised jobs but has created no jobs. The job creation today is because of the Obama administration because not a single legislative measure has passed that would change the economic policies that would result in any job creation.

    Donald Trump promised that he would produce a health program that provided every American with health insurance at less cost than Obamacare. Trump hasn't produced any health insurance program and instead has attached himself to the GOP health care bills that take away health insurance for over 20 million people and that will make "age" a pre-existing condition so that those over 50 years old will never be able to afford health insurance.

    Donald Trump promised to not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid so he's letting the GOP do that but he's going to have to sign the law making himself completely responsible for the cuts.

    Donald Trump didn't "make a deal" with Saudi Arabia to purchase arms because the deal was agreed to under the Obama administration.

    Donald Trump is not responsible for the opening of a new coal mine recently because the Obama administration approved the permits and all of the funding was completed before Trump was even elected. Trump hasn't save a single coal mining job with any of his actions because coal mining jobs aren't disappearing because of environmental regulation. They're disappearing because of natural gas that's cheaper and less polluting than coal.

    Donald Trump had nothing to do with GM building a manufacturing plant in the United States. This was a business decision by GM that had already been approved and the reason behind the plant was to reduce delays in the logistical supply line.

    Donald Trump promised to deport more illegal criminal aliens but instead he switched mass deportation and while a lot of unlawful immigrants have been rounded up and put in detention centers the number of deportations is down from last year. He's also caused panic in the construction and agricultural fields that are now having labor shortage problems. Construction is bogged down because of a lack of labor and the crops are going to rot because there's not nearly enough immigrant laborers to harvest the crops.

    The only campaign promise Trump has kept was in the appointment of a Supreme Court justice and the only reason that happened was that the GOP had to change a long-standing Senate rule that's going to be highly detrimental to the United States in the future.

    Oh wait, he's also managed to "Ban Muslims" but ironically his Muslim Ban is banning more Christians than it is Muslims.

    You've shown nothing because Trump's done nothing.
     
  16. J.Idallian

    J.Idallian Well-Known Member

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    And in other news, we've polled exactly 24 communist nations around the world on the current situation in Venezuela. 23 out of 24 claim that Venezuela's problems are the results of communism not being done properly, US Intervention, and a lack of faith in the system. The 24th country was unreachable due to a civil war.
     
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  17. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    America First means policies that are in the interest of the United States of America. Not in the interests of Continental Europe. I know, we've had that belief since the Marshal Plan, and since NATO but we must remember why we initiated those programs in the first place. America's commitment to Europe was contingent on the principle that Europe would not agitate Russia, and that we in turn would intermediate between Europe and Eurasia(principally, Russia.)

    We very basically wanted to avoid the causes of the First and Second World Wars. Unfortunately, Europe and Eurasia couldn't help itself and a half-century of rare peace between the two continents have fallen apart. The blame falls neither with Donald Trump nor with the US. It is the warring parties and their inability to communicate. It's also in our lack of flexibility.

    Whether or not the port of Crimea is Russian or not, is insignificant. No European Nation can honestly tell me that their interests were impaired by the Crimean seizure. The reasoning given, is that it "goes against the INTL norms." But that could be said for every military skirmish from the very debut of the UN. INTL laws and treaties have not stopped warfare. And as far as annexation goes, it's true that it was outlawed, but instead we've had "soft government coups" take its place.

    Leaving that aside, we have the more serious matters of Ukraine and Syria, each of which with very different positions. In Ukraine, the EU is entirely to blame for interceding with Ukrainian affairs by giving an economic offer to the Ukrainians to join the EU, while they had an arrangement with the Russians. Obviously, for those Ukrainians(West) who wanted to join the EU, and for those(East) who wanted to remain in a deal with the Russians, this would not go well. The Ukrainian Civil War would have happened regardless of which side the former President picked(who was overthrown in a coup.)

    Ideally, Ukraine would be a self-dependent country but with these two "big brothers"(who have long fought over Ukraine), it has been a difficult thing for the Ukrainian People. The best we can hope for, is a solution similar to South/North Africa: Separation. West Ukraine is an EU Nation, and Eastern Ukraine remains with the Russians.

    This should satisfy the economic leanings of the Ukrainian State, with the UN acting as a protectorate of the two sides to prevent further escalations.

    Ukraine is second to the big daddy hampering relations(ignoring the Russian interference situation): Syria. Let me be very frank: We should not have supported the attempt to depose Assad. Not because Assad is a decent human being, but because the people deposing him were equally as monstrous and equally as bad for the world community.

    What President Obama failed to understand is that government, even bad government is preferable to INTL terrorism and anarchy. Egypt was badly destabilized and Libya became a failed State. Having learned from these lessons, we should have soundly rejected the rebels and in fact offered military assistance against them, while giving Assad the space for political reforms.

    Obviously, that is not what we did. So Russia chose that side. But Russia didn't have the clot that would stop the Kurd-Turkish Civil Conflict, or the kind of clot that would keep Assad from using chemical weapons.

    Our involvement in the war, destabilized one country, started a civil war in a not-to-distant theater and now we're supporting terrorists. What an absolutely terrific job!

    What we should do is start meditating between the Kurds-Turks for a Kurdish State in which the Kurds and Turkey recognize themselves peacefully. Once we get them out of the way, we should start closed-door discussions with the Russians involving Assad's future. We should be flexible: Yes, Assad must go but the State can entirely remain a Russian ally. We have no interests in the Middle East. If Russia can agree to a proposal in which Syria becomes more flexible, or even the appearance of it, we can get moderates aligned with legitimate political forces to crush the ISIS renegades, restore peaceful order in Syria and have political reforms finally to address their human rights needs.
     
  18. RichT2705

    RichT2705 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Way too long winded a response for a simple discussion. If you like reading your own manifestos have fun, too much for me to read much less debate.
     
  19. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    "America First" - is a re-tread of a slogan used by isolationists prior to our entry into WWII.
    Xenophobia, trade wars, and appeasement were other characteristics of this period of American history - best forgotten, not replayed.

    I also do not get "Make America Great Again" - I think America IS great - when to the Trump chumps think America fell????
    I know the GOP wants to return to the "good ole days" when neither blacks nor women could vote.
     
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  20. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Since World War II America has been the leader of the world. Until Trump, the U.S. remained aware it was a "part of" the world order, and showed a respect for and a willingness to work with other nations. Trump and his minions want to separate the U.S. from and elevate it above all other nations, and focus on ourselves to the utter exclusion of everyone else as if they don't and never did really matter. Such profound self aggrandizement reminds us of behaviors displayed by leaders of the fascist regimes of the 1930's, which many of our parents and grandparents fought a bloody war against. The world is what it is because it is what we all collectively make it. The leaders of any given time epoch contribute more than most to the outcome of that collective result. Between 1945 and 2016, this nation did a pretty good job of being that world leader. Trump is abandoning that remarkable heritage in favor of a new form of tribal nationalism that is becoming increasingly ugly by the day. America doesn't become "great again" by becoming arrogant and self-serving, demanding toward and disconnected from our friends, and grovelling toward our established enemies. And, just because you can make a "business deal" doesn't make you a world leader. The qualifications are not the same.
     
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  21. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Here's more:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-retrenchment-is-a-golden-oldie-1499030053



    OPINION COMMENTARY COMMENTARY (U.S.)
    American Retrenchment Is a Golden Oldie
    ‘As we look out at the rest of the world we are confused,’ wrote Henry Luce in February 1941.
    By James Dobbins
    July 2, 2017 5:14 p.m. ET
    119 COMMENTS

    PHOTO: DAVID GOTHARD
    In its 76th year, the “American Century” seems headed for a premature end. Americans are reportedly tired of shouldering the burdens of world leadership, supporting democracy, promoting free trade, and defending their allies. From now on, the American president says, the indispensable nation is going to look out for No. 1, raise new barriers to trade and immigration, and renegotiate—or possibly renege on—recent and longstanding commitments.

    Europe’s most influential leader, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, has given voice to what is likely a wider sentiment: America’s allies can no longer count on the U.S. and must take their fates into their own hands.

    But America’s tendency to draw inward is nothing new. The American Century was first proclaimed by Henry Luce, publisher of Time and Life magazines, in words that resonate today. “We Americans are unhappy,” he wrote in February 1941. “We are not happy about America. We are not happy about ourselves in relation to America. We are nervous—or gloomy—or apathetic. As we look out at the rest of the world we are confused; we don’t know what to do.”

    He continued: “As we look toward the future—our own future and the future of other nations—we are filled with foreboding. The future doesn’t seem to hold anything for us except conflict, disruption, war.” While this may sound familiar, Luce was describing a nation still recovering from the Great Depression. Most Americans were disillusioned with the results of the First World War and determined to stay out of the Second.


    ILLUSTRATION: DAVID GOTHARD
    Many of today’s Americans still haven’t recovered from the Great Recession that began in 2008. Nearly all are deeply disappointed with the results of the seemingly endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 1941 Luce argued that “other nations can survive simply because they have endured so long—sometimes with more and sometimes with less significance. But this nation, conceived in adventure and dedicated to the progress of man—this nation cannot truly endure unless there courses strongly through its veins from Maine to California the blood of purposes and enterprise and high resolve.” He concluded: “It is in this spirit that all of us are called, each to his own measure of capacity, and each in the widest horizon of his vision, to create the first great American Century.”

    Donald Trump is not the first president to want to reduce America’s foreign commitments. In 1969, as America began to withdraw from Vietnam, President Richard Nixon established a doctrine that came to bear his name, warning that the U.S. would henceforth expect its allies to provide the manpower for their own defense. Presidents Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush and Barack Obama also entered office promising a restrained American role abroad.

    Yet Mr. Carter went on to launch a covert war against the Soviet presence in Afghanistan and enunciated a doctrine of his own, declaring that any “attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.” Mr. Bush pledged not to engage in “nation building,” yet ended up doing that in Afghanistan and Iraq. During his first term Mr. Obama announced a “pivot to Asia,” then the world’s most peaceful region, but spent his second term boosting American military commitments in Europe and the Middle East instead.

    Isolationism is a recurring temptation of American foreign policy. Responding to new and unforeseen challenges, however, the U.S. has repeatedly resisted that temptation and risen to the demands of global leadership. Is it different this time? Certainly the official rhetoric from the Trump administration is more fervent. And Mr. Trump’s election is a sign that American dissatisfaction with the existent global division of labor is widespread.

    But we don’t know how the country will respond to the next crisis. It took the surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, nine months after Luce’s call to arms, to push the U.S. into World War II. It took the installation of Soviet puppet regimes throughout Eastern Europe to keep America engaged on the Continent for 40 years after the defeat of Nazi Germany. It took the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan for Mr. Carter to commit to defending the Persian Gulf. The 9/11 attacks turned Mr. Bush into a nation builder, and the rise of the Islamic State and the Russian invasion of Ukraine led Mr. Obama to recommit American forces to the Middle East and Europe.

    Mr. Obama, like his predecessors, discovered that while Americans wanted a less costly foreign policy, they had difficulty accepting the diminished influence that went with it. Americans are unlikely to remain comfortable seeing their leaders heading a coalition of petro-state monarchs and illiberal strongmen while the democratic world marches to a different drum.

    President Trump and his administration will be tested soon. The test could come in Syria or on the Korean Peninsula, or in some wholly unanticipated place and some entirely unexpected way. Then, when allies’ support and international solidarity will be at a premium, Americans will find out whether their century of pre-eminence has ended.

    Mr. Dobbins is a senior fellow at the RAND Corp., a former U.S. ambassador and assistant secretary of state, and the author of “Foreign Service: Five Decades at the Forefront of American Diplomacy,” just out from Brookings Institution Press.

    Appeared in the July 3, 2017, print edition.
     
  22. Conviction

    Conviction Well-Known Member

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    Obama was president at the time of the study... I agree with you that Obama was an AWFUL president
     
  23. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    That is correct, in 2014 Obama was the president and the US only ranked 10th in the top 10 nations for healthcare. This was the first year of implementation of the ACA (Obamacare) and it substantially improved after 2014 by providing more insurance every year thereafter. That could have potentially moved the United States higher in the top 10 but I don't have that information.

    The ACA (Obamacare) would also have performed better in 2015, 2016, and into 2017 if the recommendations for improvements by the Democrats wouldn't have been blocked by the GOP in Congress. Without the GOP obstructionism we might have moved up to ninth, maybe eighth, and perhaps even seventh but that didn't happened.

    Instead we're in 2017 now and because Republicans refused to reimburse the insurance companies for up to 80% of their early financial loses incurred by providing insurance to those with pre-existing conditions the insurance companies had to raise their rates significantly for 2017 and there was even a limited number that dropped out of highly unprofitable markets.

    In 2017 we've also seen two GOP proposals, one in the House and one in the Senate, that would result in over 20 million people losing health insurance as well as premium prices rising dramatically for those that require health insurance the most leaving without insurance in the future. The US wouldn't just drop out of the top 10 but might even drop out of the top 20. Americans would be worse off than they were in 2009 because millions of new "uninsured" would be living in the United States.

    "Make America Worse Again"
    Donald Trump


    Sorry but only a minority in the United States and even in the world believe that Obama wasn't a good president. When Obama left office he had a 59% approval rating and only a 37% disapproval rating. That's a positive 22% approval rating in the United States.
    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/popularity.php?pres=44&sort=time&direct=DESC&Submit=DISPLAY

    President Obama was also the most respected world leader as president.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/24/7-charts-on-how-the-world-views-president-obama/

    It's not even fair to compare Trump to any president because he's tanking across the board but let's see where he's at just for fun.

    As of today, based upon a poll between 7/1-7/3, Trump's approval rating was 37% and his disapproval rating was 57%. That's a negative approval rating of -20. That's a staggering 42% difference between Obama's positive approval rating and Trump's negative approval rating.
    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/popularity.php?pres=45&sort=time&direct=DESC&Submit=DISPLAY

    But wait, Trump claimed to be the most masterful person to ever address foreign affairs so if he's not doing well at home he must be scoring "hugely" when it comes to world opinion. So let's see because Pew just released their research on world opinion.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26...lics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/

    WOW, Trump's not doing well internationally either. The drop of 42% in just six months is unprecedented to my knowledge.

    Perhaps the most amazing thing has happened because I never thought I'd ever hear these words.

     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  24. Conviction

    Conviction Well-Known Member

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    So was Adolf Hitler.

    Besides I don't make my assessments based on what the low IQ mob thinks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  25. SillyAmerican

    SillyAmerican Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think many of us Trump chumps would be quite happy to see the U.S. GDP growing at a rate above 3% once again. That would be a very welcome change...


    [​IMG]
     

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