The oft-cited PISA exam by the OECD states that, among OECD member countries, the USA is 15th in Reading, 24th in Math, and 21st in Science. Out of 30. It's often blamed on budget cuts, school rankings, or standardized tests. (the latter two of which I personally support) Yet, we're arguably still the world's powerhouse of innovation. Where are Apple, Google, Microsoft? (okay, maybe Microsoft isn't so good an example...) And I live in a pretty decent school district, kids (somewhat) obedient, enthusiastic, and high-scoring. There's a lot of these kinds of schools all over America! There's a lot more to say on both sides. But let's get to the point. What, in your opinion, is the state of education in America?
Personally when they "compare" our children to the worlds I think its a crock,its always "how do we compete"? We dont need to compete with the world and thats the flaw in the argument,its the reason they parrot this global economy theory,how about we worry about the good ole USA here first? We have a nation of growing handout class that see's this as the reason they went to school.Most of them take huge sums of Govt insured loans and sit in classrooms for years and then when they graduate work in fast food and default on their loans. When i was in the Navy,in every work center I was in,I would challenge my subordinates to better themselves,be it education,physical preparedness or personal responsibility.My motto I gave them to live by was,"If and when you fail,never use I wasnt prepared as a excuse,but when you excel trumpet "I excelled as I was prepared to do so" People who settle on failure will always settle,People who obtain success never settle
Public schools are complete (*)(*)(*)(*). Give the people back their money and let them educate their kids wherever they want.
I think it is poor because we teach our children to memorize instead of analyze. We teach with an eye to make as many pass mediocre standards as possible and thus overlook the capabilities of some of the more gifted. However, as long as we are world leaders in economic opportunity (thanks capitalism), some of the world's best and brightest will continue to come to our law schools, medical schools, and tech companies and make up for our crappy lower age schools, at least to a degree.
We still import a lot of good education in the form of educated immigrants. On the home front, I think we have just about everything working against education, including increasingly poor home/family life, a culture of disobedience and violence, a host of sexual, digital and other distractions, an increasing ineffectiveness of public education to even matter in terms of finding a good job and earning a good wage later on, and corruption of the public sector that leads to suboptimal curricula, teachers and funding allocation..
That would seem to be the result of too much standardisation and otherwise turning schools into publicly funded degree mills.
ame to that.all they do is tell lies and propaganda ion american history.they dont tell you about the REAL atrocities american presidents have committed against their own people.
That's not exactly the reason I was aiming at haha, but I think people should be able to choose to send their kids to a school that teaches their beliefs without having to pay the tax allocated toward public education. It's a coerced monopoly because people will very rarely pay twice over for something if they can already use something for free. Oh, and the Federal government has no constitutional authority to create public schools - if people want public schools get off your asses and pass an amendment, you can't just ignore it. I don't get Americans these days - all sides of politics hold the constitution up as the supreme law of the land for demagogic purposes but flat out ignore it when it's convenient. How do they live with this conflicting logic? Doesn't it bother them? Sigh.
American public education has been overwhelmed by all the many children of low income illegal immigrants. It's no surprise that schools are struggling. You cannot jam 35 children into a class and expect them to come out with a proper education.
American Education is full of propaganda. The pace of learning is too fast and teachers never spend enough time going in depth about a topic. They teach what to think rather than how to think. Curriculum focuses too much on topics that are irrelevant to the future of most people.
There's a lot of playing around with ideas for improving the educational system in this thread. Some time ago, I heard about the system in Finland (or was it Sweden, or what?) that, as a taxpayer, your children would be automatically eligible for a fixed amount of tuition paid for by the government. That way, if you hear about a good school in a different district some miles (no, kilometers) down the road, you go to that school and they get the money. They'd better deliver... or students will leave and money will be lost. Yet a lot of people say that competition isn't for schools - the above plan is essentially a near-privatization of elementary to high school education. Sort of like colleges, which brings problems all its own (anyone who's gone through college apps can tell you that). But still, I would think, on the contrary, that competition is good between school systems. As a business, either your product is good or you've got a big bank account to buffer your losses. It should be the same for public schools, right? It's often called social Darwinism (not to bring evolution into this thread): only the schools giving the best education will actually "survive." But that's Darwinism in a good way - you end up with a whole lot of good schools and a whole lot of great students. ~lazypuppy
Amerika's public schools are a complete disaster - not just b/c of falling standards and low achievement, but b/c of what is being taught. The United States of America - as a Republic - is dead. We now dysfunction as a "democracy". A properly educated citizenry would understand why democracy is dangerous, and would recognize the phases of collapse we are now going through - we are almost at the end of the process now. Going back over 100 years, generation after generation have been increasingly exposed to leftist ideas in America's public schools. Democracy, behavior modification, multi-culturalism, the Constitution as a "living document", biased interpretations of SC rulings that always favor expansion of government, premature sexualization, gender and sexuality confusion, constant bias in building up statists and disparaging their opponents, false environmentalism - AGW, on and on... Amerikan public schools teach all manner of falsity. The agenda is clear. In terms of freedom? In terms of America surviving as a nation of free people? Amerikan public education is a complete and utter disaster. Joseph Stalin or Adolf Hitler couldn't have more completely indoctrinated an entire population like the radical leftists who control Amerika's public education system have. Only an ignorant population would accept living in a democracy; only an ignorant population would allow their government to bankrupt their treasury, and believe the demagoguery which permits government theft in their name; only an ignorant population would cheer on their government as it steals from posterity - how sick and pathetic is that??; again, on and on... Amerikans circa 2013 are ingredibly ignorant citizens. The writing is on wall, yet they can't read it. Our Founding Fathers warned us very clearly not to follow the path we are now on; but, I guess Johnny and Suzie didn't get that reading assignment in the public school they attended. http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html $22 trillion in 4 years? Boomers retiring? Government growing at every level; more laws; less freedom; more government schemes in the works... wait til you find out their coming after your 401K, lol... I think I remember reading they are going to be called "guarenteed retirement accounts". Future looks rosy for sure and for certain
American education definitely has its flaws, but it's not that bad. I think our educational system is trying to do too much. Trying to teach too many topics in too many subjects and failing to see the necessity for specialization. By high school, students simply can't (and don't want to) learn everything about every subject. The requirements and homework needed to keep up in every subject are overwhelming and discourage students from focusing on the things that they actually enjoy. If America began specializing education earlier (high school instead of college) then students could learn the practical information needed in their life. I'm not saying turn high schools in to college, but allow high school students to specialize. If a student really likes science, then allow them to take more science classes and focus on them instead of being forced to take a bunch of literature and history classes. The basics should be covered before high school- reading, writing, basic math, history, government. Then students who have a specific interest can choose to take higher levels of what they want. If we wait for college to give students these options, many will already be discouraged or bored, and valuable time will be lost.
Top result, "failing but with proper action"? that's a joke. It began to go downhill fast with the intrusion of the Federal Government, doing away with phonics and replace it with unproven experimental treatment plans, new math, dis-allowing hands on science for "safety reasons", taking disciplinary actions out of the hands of teachers, excluding American History from Elementary School curriculums, separating children by creating "advanced classes" for the more advanced students instead of intergrading all levels of students in classes which helps those at the lower levels and higher levels equally. IMO. Things began to go downhill with the creation of the Federal Department of Education. Things began to go downhill when teachers lost their individuality and were forced to teach students with the only goal that they pass government and state tests. Students lack commonsense and the ability to learn on their own when they graduate H.S. They haven't learned how to learn. Is that clear?
Part of the problem is that we are trying to educate everybody to the maximum level possible, and telling them that if they don't get a college degree that they are a lost cause. Told that if they don't get it they'll never amount to anything. Frankly, the bulk of the population could probably get by just fine with an 8th grade education. If we had school as a voluntary thing, not a compulsory thing, and changed education to be something that is a prized object, not a death sentence of debt, we'd see some big changes. Were it voluntary past the 8th grade I could see a great many things happening for the better. The amount of kids going to school these days is ridiculous, the amount of garbage degrees has proliferated beyond reason, and because there is a demand for "ejamuhkayshun" the prices have soared well beyond a reasonable amount. And the student loan bubble looks like it is going to pop soon as well. Public education is more of an indoctrination scheme than a legitimate education, a bad baby sitting service.
The problem is that we have this idea that change of focus should be easy to do. Years ago I was a science teacher at a school that was becoming a health sciences magnet school. I was in a curriculum committee. We (a group of science teachers and teachers from a local vocational school) designed a very focused rigorous curriculum. It was vetoed by the parents on the committee. They wanted students to be able to change "tracks" up until their junior year. There went specialization and rigor. The problem is that we teach a college prep curriculum to all. For some it's full strength, but for most, it's watered down. That said, I think college prep high school should teach a liberal arts and sciences curriculum. Why? The students still have time to specialize, and need a broader base. It's no good being a science major if you can't write. I think we should also be teaching a vocational curriculum for those who aren't planning to go to college (or are not college material).
I don't think that any change in the education system would be easy. It would take a huge movement, a lot of effort, and quite a few adjustment years. How then, do we change anything? Is our educational system flawed because we are afraid to change it? (These aren't meant to attack your ideas, but are honest questions I am searching for answers to). I think that our college prep curriculum end up hurting many students in the end because it focuses too much on college. Vocational curriculums are seen as "lower level" but in reality they are very important to our society. Not everybody needs to go to college and not everyone wants to. As a college student, I understand the importance of college education, but students need to be given the option. Specialization should be an option in high schools, but a combined math/science and liberal arts track should also be available.
Education isn't optional until later in high school for an reason. 8th grade is a tough time for students in today's world. It's still the middle of puberty for most kids and it's a time a great rebellion and independence. So many students would drop out and later regret it because of the turmoil of these ages. I think that the population could "get by" with an 8th grade education, but don't we want a population that excels? Don't we want a population that has all of the tools needed to succeed (not the tools just to scape by at a minimum level)? College should be an option (and ideally an affordable one) and it should be encouraged when necessary, but it shouldn't be a requirement for life. I think that refocusing the high school curriculum could have a huge impact. These "garbage degrees" that you mention don't have to be "garbage." Many times they are people's passions. Students should be able to major in whatever they would like; it is their decision to weight the consequences of choosing a practical major or just more of an interest. Students shouldn't decide to earn these degrees just because they feel that they must earn a degree, but they should be available for those that like them.
Ignorance can be cured by curiosity. However, curiosity is no longer a dominant American trait among liberals or conservatives.
That is what parents are for. To encourage their children. But forcing a child in school and penalizing them if they don't arrive is not going to win hearts and minds, some kids simply don't belong in school until later because of the nature of children. Some kids do well in a class room environments, most simply don't. Most kids don't really enjoy school, and so they get little out of it. Of course we do, and we have those tools available, but forcing down their throat when so much is entirely unnecessary? We want people to excel obviously, but facts are most don't even when the tools are handed to them on a silver platter. So why not make the platter for those who truly want to be there? Make it optional. In order to refocus high school, you must first refocus the elementary schools. This is a bottom up, not a top down problem. Most of these garbage degrees - political science, interior design, general studies, geography, journalism and such. Journalism in particular isn't anything special because it is basically determining research skills and citing your sources properly. Not exactly a complex art. Most of such things are simply learning the tools of the trade, but the skill is either intuitive or it isn't. You can get a degree in art and be a really (*)(*)(*)(*)ty sculptor, painter, musician - whatever. And it won't exactly help you get a job anywhere else other than a rare field of museums. Sociology comes to mind as well. and with a large percentage of college grads hitting the workforce only to feel like they got jew'd big time - because they can't get hired in their field. And they dumped lots of money, or debt to get it. Not fair to them, not fair to their creditors, not fair to the tax payers who are going to be screwed and put on the hook for it.
I'll say it again for those who haven't read past posts. The top 10 % (i.e. wealthiest) of public schools in the USA are the best in the world. The middle 10-70 % are on par with the rest of the world with the 10-40 percentile competitive worldwide. The bottom 30 % of schools in the USA make Uganda look like a first-world. Any attempt to agglomerate the USA will lead to skewed statistics.
