Evidence for the Creator: Mass Delusion

Here is more evidence for the Creator..

Mass Delusion

IF.. this is a godless universe..
THEN.. everyone who believes in God is deluded. They can't (or won't) face reality, but need a crutch to face the emptiness and meaninglessness of their existence. So they fabricate a delusion about a God Who created them for some purpose. This can only be a delusion, a psychotic fantasy for deluded fools, ..if.. this is, indeed, a godless universe.

Delusion seems to be rampant, in a godless universe.

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. ~Arthur C. Clarke

But if humanity is so prone to delusion, how have atheists escaped this propensity? Are they superhuman? Do they have more courage? Are they just smarter?

No, i concede the presence of a propensity for delusion, in the human animal. But it is just as likely, if not more so, that the unbelievers in God are the deluded ones. With all the evidence taken together, it seems more plausible to conclude that 'delusion!', is with those who deny the Creator. Unwilling to face their accountability to the Creator, they have constructed (or have been indoctrinated into) delusional fantasies, that ignore the most basic Truth of the universe:

You are accountable to your Creator. You are not your own god.

They prefer the comfort of a delusion, rather than face accountability to their Creator.

So mass delusion, and the tendency for humans to be deceived, indoctrinated, and manipulated by agenda driven ideologues, is also evidence of a supernatural conflict.. a battle for the souls of men. And this battle could only be real if there IS a supernatural dimension, and a God Who ordered it.

This is one factor, among many, that provide evidence for the Creator. I offer this series as a scientific and logical analysis of the physical evidence. This is one evidence of many, that supports a Creation Event, and conflicts with the model of atheistic naturalism.

Angst
Entropy
Reproductive Isolation
Personal Experience
Morality
Extinction
Consensus
Foxhole Atheists

..there is more. The scientific, inferred, and experiential evidence for the Creator is overwhelming. Those who believe there is no evidence for the Creator have been deceived.

 

Nobody wants to address delusion?

Can humans be deluded?

How do you know if you are deluded? ..a hapless dupe to State Mandated propaganda?

Is Truth knowable?

 

No one denomination has more than 18% of the population that believes in it (Baptist, Catholics, Sunni, Mormons, Hindu ...etc. ).

18% is the average efficacy rate for Placebos. That perfectly explains why religions work in this world.

 

Your OP, once again, seems to be a race to the bottom. You are either claiming all religions are correct or you are stuck having the same problem you proposed in the first place

 

..a meaningless, irrelevant statistic..

There are basically 3 major religious beliefs in the world...
1. Judaism/Christianity/Islam
2. Hinduism
3. Buddhism

Atheism is such a small subset of humanity, it doesn't even qualify as a 'major' human belief, but can be lumped in with the minority outliers, like tribal animism, norse gods, etc.

Regardless of the numbers, it only corroborates the OP, that man is prone to delusion. Indoctrination, peer pressure, family influence, cultural exposure.. many factors enter in to mold a person's worldview. We are not as insightful as we like to believe, but are products of our Age.

The only common denominator, throughout the history of man, is delusion.. mass delusion, as whole societies follow the philosophical trend, and gobble up the latest, most intriguing story for their generation.

The lame assertion from the militant atheists here, is that they are immune from cultural influences, and have arrived at 'The Truth!', through sheer intelligence and reason.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Atheism, like all other religio/philosophical opinions, is indoctrinated, proselytized, and promoted by the followers of that sect. It is just another lame religious belief, in the smorgasbord of philosophical delicacies that people THINK they choose from, with open minds.

The constant bigotry and intolerance toward 'theists!', from the militant atheists is compelling evidence that their beliefs must be promoted with jihadist zeal, and the competition bashed.

If your claim is true (which i see no data for, just contrived statistics), then the religious belief of atheism is just another placebo, in the collection of mankind.

..and.. it does not address the OP, but deflects with irrelevant contrived statistics.

Do you dispute 'delusion', as a common human trait? Are your alleged placebos not just evidence of the propensity of man for delusion?

?
Straw men, or false accusations..

You got, 'All religions are correct!', in a thread about mass delusion?


..but the gratuitous ad hom is expected.. why use reason, when personal shots are so much more fun!

 

There are 2 basic, mutually exclusive possibilities, for the origin of life and the universe:

Intelligent Design
Atheistic Naturalism

or more colorfully,

Goddidit!
Nuthindidit!

All other Questions in life hinge on the assumption of one or the other of these base worldviews.

I have listed the Big Questions of life before, but to provide a more complete philosophical overview, I'll repeat them:

Origins
Meaning
Morality
Destiny

These are The Big Ones: How, Why, What, & When.

They are questions of matter, purpose, law, & time.

HOW did i (and everybody else) get here?
WHY are we here? Is there a purpose to our existence?
WHAT do we do? Are there rules for our existence?
WHEN we die, what happens? Is there a soul?

The conclusions drawn, from either assumption, are completely different:

IF.. the God made assumption is true, THEN:

How? - Goddidit
Why? - There may be a reason or purpose that God has made us.
What? - There may be rules, or standards of morality, for our behavior.
When? - We might have a soul, and face an eternal destiny.

BUT.. IF.. we assume a godless universe, the answers are logically different:

How? - Nuthindidit. Natural processes, with no intelligent intervention.
Why? - No purpose or meaning is possible. We are a random accident in a meaningless, purposeless universe
What? - No absolute morality is possible. Good, evil, virtue, and morality are human constructs made up to manipulate people
When? - No soul, no existence beyond the physical.

These are the logical possibilities, and the conclusions, from either assumption. That raises a question:

Why do so many people believe in a standard of morality, or a sense of significance and purpose, or a feeling of spirit/soul within them?

2 possibilities:

• Those things are real, inherent to our existence
• Those things are delusions

The dilemma we humans have, is arriving at the Truth. Is the universe purposeful, directed, with eternal significance and consequence? Or is it a random accident of nature, with no direction, significance, or consequence?

Delusion is common, in the human experience. How does one arrive at an objective, empirical conclusion, on this most basic question of humanity?

How would one distinguish from a genuine 'experience' of God, vs a sentimental feeling, or angst driven psychosis?

What if this 'feeling' of longing, remorse, and emptiness is just a chemical reaction in the brain, with no spiritual significance? What if 'religious experience', is just a delusion, as many skeptics claim?

It seems that if you reject or ignore these 'callings' from God, or at least the feelings of Something More, eventually they go away, and you become settled and convinced they are all contrived.. from fear, wishful thinking, or manipulation.

The problem i have with this conclusion, is the exclusion of themselves, by the skeptics, of the psychological motivations.

IF.. belief in God is a delusion.. wishful thinking to pretend significance and eternal purpose in a meaningless, insignificant universe, how do they exclude themselves? If there is such a major propensity in humanity to believe in a delusion, might the skeptic also be deluded, by pretending there is no God, no accountability, no sin, and no eternal consequence for their words, thoughts, and actions? What if constant denial and 'hardening the heart', toward spiritual matters only dulls or deadens the spiritual perceptors in every human? That possibility is equally valid.

If it an easy projection on the majority to assume, 'delusion!', for believing in God, i submit that the reverse is an equally valid assumption. The skeptic is merely responding from fear and wishful thinking, pretending there is no God, so as to avoid the responsibility and accountability he might have, toward his Creator.

If delusion is as widespread as it appears, then what else can you conclude, but widespread delusion, regarding the mysteries of life?

How does one sift through the Indoctrination, cultural manipulation, peer and family influence, and arrive at Objective Truth? Or are we all hopelessly trapped in the cosmos of delusion, with no possibility of discovering the truth?

 

Quote taken entirely OUT of CONTEXT!

Clarke was talking about ALIEN LIFE elsewhere in the universe, not your imaginary "creator".

But since your topic is all about theism and delusions and you quoted Clarke how about we see what he actually had to say on this topic instead.

 

Excellent post.

 

Those who believe in God, do so because their is an inner void that needs filling. The void is that the mind is confounded at the 'why of existence'.

The prospect of an unsolvable mystery is unsettling for the mind. So, in it's misery, it seeks to explain it away.

So, now we get to the old " If you found a watch in the desert, you can presume it has a creator." model to explain 'intelligent designer'.

Therefore.......

While that works perfectly anecdotally, when it comes to solving the mystery of the universe, there are some problems.

1. Applying that model to the universe is grossly simplistic. The complexity of the universe is so vast, it's a fools errand to try and reduce it to 'finding a watch in the desert to there must be a creator for the watch, therefore......".

2. The universe is so vast, so infinitely vast, so mindbogglingly vast, what are the odds that the mind, infinitesimally small compared to it, what are the odds that the mind can get it right about the universe? What are the odds? I'd say pretty small. I'd say zero ( for now ).

3. God as 'intelligent designer' is, when you scrutinize it, a half baked solution. And, when it comes to solving the mystery of the universe, a half baked solution is no solution at all. And here it is. I find it amusing that the thrust for explaining the universe being 'created by God' is that it fills a void. For me, it doesn't fill a void at all, because all it does is create another void, and we are back to square one, and that is, why do we accept the solution to the universe as being created by God, but are not concerned with who Created God, and who created the one who created that guy, and on and on?

The concept of God does not actually fill the void. Believers in God only think it does. They are not content with life being a mystery, God created life, and viola, no more mystery, but they are completely content with the mystery of God. This is an inconsistency.

Sorry, not I. In fact, life is a mystery, and my solution is just to accept that fact, and be honest about it, It's simply an unsolvable mystery.

"Life is not a mystery to be solved, it's a mystery to be lived" ----ancient proverb.

 

I don't need an 'intelligent designer' to explain the universe. I'm not going to pretend I have a fat chance in hell to solve the mystery of life.

But, I did posit the following, and it's probably full of holes, I"m no genius, others out there will probably shoot it down. In the meantime, I have this:


So, all that is needed for life to exist is:

1 That infinity is true. How can it be otherwise? Even if everything stopped, time continues, right? ( or I think it does ).

2 That life is possible. We can see life, therefore, it has to be possible.

Therefore, given infinity, all that is possible, is inevitable.

That's it! It's just a matter of enough time, noting that, given infinity, all numbers are small, infinitesimally small.

The mind cannot conceive of largeness on the scale of the universe, not very well.

I've heard the argument about earth, that an astronomical number of things had to be in place, to be just right, that it seems impossible that it all occurred by chance.

But this assumes that the number is astronomically large.

NO!!! Compared to infinity, all finite numbers are infinitesimally small, !

That's what you have to grasp, to understand that 'given infinity, all that is possible, is inevitable'.

Oh well, I try.

 

However, if each of us is a chip off the old block, then the mind is instinctively justified despite the suggested numerical odds.

Granted, the anthropomorphic projection of a personified superbeing leaves something to be desired as it is not entirely comprehensive. Perhaps a better mindset is one that contemplates features of both microcosm and macrocosm. At the former level, everything is just energy and consciousness. The latter includes intelligence, which implies involvement of being(s).

The double slit experiment is testimony to the universality of inherent intelligence, or at least that of adherence to consistent data processing logic in a universe that appears to be a virtual reality.

Upon extending one's scope to take in the big picture, it appears that the aim of creation is to produce enhanced beings by way of generating life-bearing planets. All of us are God's children, and our destiny is out there in the stars.

Such issues are moot. The multiverse extends to levels beyond our perceptibility.

 

..so you believe. ..so you assert.

So, you agree that 'Delusion!' is rampant among human beings, who have concocted this belief to fill some 'inner void', whose origin cannot be explained.

I submit, that those who DENY the Creator are the deluded ones, who attempt to rationalize their belief in atheistic naturalism to evade accountability to their Creator. They harden their inner spiritual 'sense', that nags their minds to deal with their soul, and pretend to be their own god, with no moral absolutes, no eternal destiny, and no spiritual dimension.

They fill the 'void' you speak of, with all manner of distractions, amusements, and petty, shallow, meaningless pursuits.. ANYTHING, but deal with the inner Call from their Creator.

“There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of each man which cannot be satisfied by any created thing but only by God the Creator." ~Blaise Pascal c. 1670

 

Irrelevant. I quoted Clarke for the point he made:

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Whether you apply this concept to 'Aliens!', or 'Deities!', is irrelevant. How would we.. very limited mortal, finite beings.. differentiate between a deity and an advanced alien being, who had the ability to travel through light years in the galaxy, seed life, or any number of imaginary abilities these advanced beings have?

The beliefs or personal conclusions Clarke made are not necessary to the point. I look for Truth from any source, and am not restricted by the phony groupthink loyalty of ideologues.

..and the Truth is, that if there is no Creator/God, life is empty, short, brutish, and terrifying.

BUT.. if there IS a Creator/God, then life is equally terrifying.. sin, accountability, the possibility of hell, eternal existence, and other factors that accompany a Fearsome God.

You can toss aliens in the mix, if you wish.. I'm sure they can be terrifying as well.

 

You MISQUOTED Clarke and then got SPANKED by the rest of his quotes!

Failure to deal with factual reality is indeed a form of delusional thinking.

The universe exists and I exist and I am comprised of six of the most common elements of the universe ergo I am part of the universe. There is nothing in the least bit "terrifying" in that concept for those of us that accept factual reality as being normal.

That essentially reduces your position to vacuous fearmongering.

You are attempting to induce fear of the unknown which is the emotive basis for primitive superstitions which, in turn, is what your faith is based upon.

I have nothing to fear from the unknown because if it doesn't exist then it isn't a threat and once it is known if it does pose a threat I can evaluate that threat and deal with it accordingly.

That is called using a sane, rational and logical approach.

Too bad that approach is anathema to theists.

 

The mind is a clever thing. I don't think the average person grasp the totality of it's cleverness. the mind is so clever it will often trick you out of the very thing you want the most.

Let's take your argument. There is a flip side to it, and it goes something like this: It sounds to me like a clever rationale to make one feel better about one's views, via the indirect route of thinking less of others.

As for "no moral absolutes" ? What does that even mean? Does it mean that in order to be a decent person, one must believe in God? There is no proof of that. In fact, if history proves anything, it proves precisely the opposite.

My answer is that, people are innately good, not all people, but most people, and requiring a spiritual tyrant in sky watching my every move, not only makes absolutely no sense to me, I don't need it to be a good person, I have a good conscience for it's own sake. Guilt is all I need to keep me in shape. I do something wrong, because I have a conscience, I feel bad. Now then, if someone doesn't have a conscience, they are not going to feel bad for doing bad ****, anyway. Believing in God does not assure one has a conscience. They might pay lip service to it, go to church on Sundays, but that's meaningless going through the motion.

Take Trump, in a broad stroke of a pen he rips children away from their parents, whose only sin was a class B misdemeanor, ships them to who knows where in America, with no record keeping way to reunite them, and many are still separate and parents have lost their children. ( imagine if you were that parent, just imagine it) Trump doesn't even raise an eyebrow, nor care about what he has done, and so do the vast majority of 'god fearing bible thumping' republicans, they could care less, I mean, they are undocumented aliens, who cares, right? I care, I feel, I cry for those people, I feel the pain of any parent, parents who try to come to america for the sole reason to avoid the danger of their environments in Guatemala, to find a better life for their child. No one told them what lies ahead, and what lies ahead are cruel as hell, 'god fearing' but heartless, republicans. So much for "what would Jesus do?" eh?

So don't tell me, sir, about this crap of requiring some spiritual tyrant in the sky watching my every move to keep me from being a bad person, that **** makes no sense, nor does history validate it whatsoever. and we can start with the pious criminals in the catholic church diddling with young boys.. More crime has been committed in the name of god than without, or at least, just as much. If I meet someone and I find out the only reason that person is acting like a decent person is because he fears that the guy in the sky is watching, and is going to punish that person if that person merely has impure thoughts, well, I'd be leary of that person, really,

I'd say that person is living in antiquity and should snap out of his or her stupor. I feel sorry for such people, I really do. One thing is definitely true for me, no way in hell does being 'religious' mean you are more trustworthy than someone who doesn't believe in 'creator'.

As for 'nag' hmmm, I'll file that in my 'wishful thinking' file.

Now then, read the rest of my comment to understand the illogic of "creator"

I'm a follower of eastern philosophy. I believe in 'karma', so you reap, so you sew'. This philosophy acknowledges the existence of the immortal soul. Maybe someone commits a crime, gets away with it. But, eastern philosophy teaches as that we keep coming back ( reincarnation ) until the day happens when we reach "nirvana' ( spiritual fruition/ enlightenment ), which is the eastern version of "heaven', the only difference, whether you are a good person or not, there is no guarantee one will achieve spiritual enlightenment in this life, or the next. It happens when it happens, but it can happen in our immediate lives, without having to wait for an 'after life' ( there is no 'going to heaven because one is good, in eastern philosophy ) but bad conduct will prolong achieving it.. I like this concept because it does not conflict with naturalism, because the process, like nature, is more organic, happening at random. and, very much like nature, there are no guarantees.

 

Sorry, but the default position of young humans is not belief in Gods. It is a learned trait. Therefor a person who was never indoctrinated would have the default position of non-belief.

 

You are providing great examples of that delusion. Well done!

 

Then present your scientific and experimental evidence for a creator. Your entire OP was a bald assertion fallacy.

 

Always hilarious watching desperate believers cling to their childish beliefs.

Your alleged sky hero probably doesn't exist, usfan.

Deal with it...

 

The great Mr. Henley and the boyz dedicate a song to all (delusional) desperate believers out there...

 

What is there to address? You think I'm deluded, I think you're deluded, it doesn't really require saying. It is best addressed in for instance the various threads on specific topics that exist elsewhere (I have unanswered posts and unanswered arguments in most of them, whenever you have a moment).

Knowledge exists, but it is not to be taken for granted. Nobody is without delusions, and people have different delusions in different areas. Everyone, atheists included, happen to believe that the things they believe in are true (by definition).

I see no reason to believe that conflict between ideologies are proof of a spiritual battle (any more than can be explained on a mundane level).

 

Atheists are deluded. Here's the proof which is solid,

If your grandpa (or grandpa of grandpa), ever encountered any humans do you have the evidence? Can you compile a list of humans encountered by your own grandpa (or grandpa of grandpa) with evidence? You can't, as it is out of human capability to do so. Atheists are deluded to think that it is within human capability to do so, so if you don't have the evidence such that whatever you claim is can't be true. If humans don't have the capability to evidence the encounters of their grandpa (or grandpa of grandpa), they can't evidence anything if when this grandpa ever encountered God.

Proof of delusional atheists completed!

That said. The only way to get to who your grandpapa encountered is by means of he wrote it down for you to have faith that he speaks the truth. This kind of testimonies is enhanced since recording technology is made available to humans. Still even with a photo showing your grandpa of grandpa standing with someone, the chances are he's stranger to your grandpa who just passed outside his door and took a photo with him, or he's a friend. You can't know unless your grandpa left a story about who he is. Atheists can't proof with evidence that his own grandpapa is telling the truth.


Similarly, there's only one way that humans can get to the truth of God, even when it is a truth that He exists (as long as He have a good reason to hide behind). That is, when those who encountered Him wrote it down for the rest to believe with faith.

Not only God, even aliens are so. Humans can get to know their existence, as long as their technology is far more advanced and they have a reason to hide behind, is through those encountered the aliens and wrote it down.

Atheists are delusional to think that because a vessel can convey lies thus such a vessel cannot convey a truth. In reality however, such a vessel is used more often than the atheists can think of. Such as our media, that's why Trump said that they made fake news. It is so because humans in majority get to the news as facts even when our media can (in terms of capability) also convey lies (Russia and China media did this more often as we know). To put it another way, the same vessel which is capable of conveying lies is used by humans in majority to get to facts by faith. This is the reality atheists failed to face as influenced by their indoctrinated/educated minds.

Again, atheistic delusion is proved logically (which is solid).

 

We'll talk when your alleged god brings your great-"grandpa" (or better yet some famous dead person) back to life, Hawk.

In the meantime, I'm quite pleased to inform you that you're a "solid" contender for the gold in that believer mental gymnastics competition...

 

The 'sane, rational approach', would be to examine (and discuss), the facts and evidence dispassionately, without demeaning quips and expressions of religious bigotry. This is a philosophical discussion, for our mental, emotional, and spiritual edification and entertainment. If the topic only triggers you to outrage and indignation, perhaps you should avoid it.

I have not introduced fear, angst, or the dread of death, to the human experience. It is way older than i am. I'm old, but not THAT old..

Yes, good talking points about fear driven morality, but it does not address this topic, nor the thread on morality.. which is a delusion, in a godless universe.

Your judgments and condemnation of all theists is just religious bigotry, pretending YOUR beliefs are 'established fact!', while any who disagree are deluded fools.

So you assert, without evidence. Atheism is a 'learned trait', and its growth as an ideology is directly related to successful Indoctrination from State propaganda.

I don't really know what the 'default belief!', is.. perhaps agnosticism?

Good deflection with ridicule and ad hominem.

Your unevidenced, no rebuttal dismissal is noted, and dismissed, without evidence.

Ridicule is a poor substitute for reason.

I'm sure this crushes the faith of all believers..

This is your rebuttal? An Eagles song? /shakeshead/

IF.. this is a godless universe,
THEN.. anyone who believes otherwise is deluded.

IF.. this is God made universe,
THEN.. those who believe in atheistic naturalism are deluded.

Those are the logical implications. I am not addressing your specific beliefs, nor mine.

This is not supposed to be another lame, 'Atheists vs Christians!', flame war, but a rational, civil examination of the evidence for the Creator.

I see the spiritual war raging constantly, and it is compelling evidence that God is real, and our souls are at stake.

 

Speaking of evidence of theist delusions;

They beg the questions of who is "fighting" this imaginary "war", what is the body count, how many places of worship have been eliminated, where are the battle fronts and, most importantly of all, why is the side that claims to have their imaginary "creator" on their side losing so badly?