Ex-CIA man, convicted of kidnapping in Italy, arrested in Panama

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by SAUER, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. SAUER

    SAUER New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A former CIA base chief in Italy who was convicted in the 2003 abduction of an Egyptian terror suspect from a street in Milan has been detained in Panama, the Italian justice ministry said Thursday.

    However, Panamanian Security Minister Jose Raul Molino told The Associated Press in Panama City that he was unaware of Robert Seldon Lady’s detention, and the press office of the National Police - which works with Interpol, the international police agency - said it had no information about the case. The CIA said it had no immediate comment.

    Lady, the former Milan CIA official, was sentenced by an Italian appeals court in Milan earlier this year in the extraordinary rendition case to nine years in prison after being tried in absentia in Italy for the kidnapping of the Muslim cleric.

    The trials of Lady, 59, now retired from the CIA, and two other Americans in the case brought the first convictions anywhere in the world against agents involved in the agency’s extraordinary rendition program, a practice alleged to have led to torture.

    The ministry said it didn’t immediately have details on when or where in Panama the detention of Lady, who was born in Honduras, took place. Minister Anna Maria Cancellieri, who reportedly signed the request for Lady’s detention, was away on a visit to Lithuania.

    Italy and Panama have no extradition treaty, Italian diplomats said, so being detained in Panama wouldn’t necessarily result in Lady’s return to Italy, which he left a few years after the abduction, early into the Italian investigation.

    The terror suspect, Osama Moustafa Hassan Nasr, also known as Abu Omar, was abducted in February 2003, transferred to U.S. military bases, first in Italy, then in Germany, before being flown to Egypt.

    The cleric alleged he was tortured in Egypt. He was later released.

    The previous Italian government had said that extradition could only be sought for Lady, since it can only be requested for people who have been sentenced to more than four years in prison.

    A 2006 amnesty in Italy shaves three years off all sentences meted out by Italian courts, meaning if Lady is brought back to Italy, he would face six years in prison.

    The lead Italian prosecutor on the case, Armando Spataro, said Interpol had issued a request for Lady’s arrest, reflecting Italy’s determination to have him extradited.
    http://www.france24.com/en/20130718-ex-cia-man-convicted-kidnapping-italy-arrested-panama
     
  2. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Having followed this case since it first appeared in the news during the indictments and prosecutions it is clear that the CIA was involved in the illegal kidnapping Osama Moustafa Hassan Nasr, that was later determined to not be a terrorist, and that the conviction is a valid conviction for a criminal act. It is also true when Lady states he was "following orders" but we know that any "illegal order" is not to be followed by any one working for the US government. Only "lawful orders" are to be followed and, in this case, the ordering of a kidnapping was an illegal order and Lady is responsible for a criminal act along with the other CIA agents involved.

    But that's not the end of the story because those that issued the unlawful order are also criminally responsible and that takes us all the way to the Bush White House.

    Will Lady be extradited? We don't know because an extradition treaty does not exist. Extradition can be arranged on a case-by-case basis when an extradition treaty does not exist but that remains to be seen if it will happen. Should a person that has violated the criminal laws of a nation and that has already been convicted of the crime be extradited? In most cases yes.
     
  3. stekim

    stekim New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    22,819
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In some ways I feel bad for the guy. He was in a bit of a Catch-22. He almost certainly would have lost his job if he failed to carry out orders, regardless of the legality of said orders. But the War on Terror(tm), is not an all encompassing excuse to do whatever the hell you want, despite the position of the Bush and Obama administrations that it is. So running around kidnapping people and shipping them to torture centers should indeed result in your arrest and prosecution. And I'm glad Italy followed their own laws here and I hope Panama ships him off. I lived in Panama for six months and I know how little the people there think of our foreign policy. Hopefully they can put enough pressure on the government to get him extradited. Typically, they don't involve themselves in the affairs of other nations, but in this case my fingers are crossed. Sometimes it's best to just do the right thing.
     
  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Panama Releases Former CIA Operative To US...

    Panama releases former CIA operative wanted by Italy
    19 July`13 > A former CIA operative detained in Panama this week at the request of Italian authorities over his conviction in the 2003 kidnapping of a Muslim cleric in Milan was released Friday and had boarded a flight to the United States, U.S. officials said.
     
  5. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is where I found a real problem. Under the Bush administration many members of the US intelligence community, predominately members of the CIA, violated the US Constitution and US statutory law specifically related to torture. There were exceptions though. There were CIA agents that refused to engage in torturing suspects. I don't know what happened to their careers but I do know that some refused.

    My position at the time is that every agent and every government official that authorized "torture" under the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (all of which were torture under statutory law and several deaths resulted from the use of these techniques and were classified as homicide) should have been prosecuted. I wouldn't have advocated "jail time" but instead I would have advocated sentencing and then a pardon for the person.

    At the same time I would have advocated giving those that refused to comply with these orders the Congressional Medal of Freedom because they stood against the "pressure" and did what was right. They deserved the highest possible recognition for doing what was right when under extreme pressure to do what was wrong. Those that refused to do what was clearly wrong are the real heroes of the War on Terrorism.
     

Share This Page