"FREEDOM:" A Word For Suckers And Fools.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by antiprofit, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    Correct if you have a cable bill, eat out, have a cell phone bill, a tv, and other none needed bull and complain about how hard it is to pay bills you do not have your priorities staight.
     
  2. CurrentsITguy

    CurrentsITguy New Member

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    You have only yourself to blame for that. In 2008 We cleared $120k. The next year I was divorced, laid off, and had no prospects for income. You know what? I put my home on the line and went into direct competition with my former employers. I literally had no choice. I was either going to make it, or lose it all in the effort. Well it's almost 2017 and I still here. Just barely keeping my head above water, but I'm here. And you know what? My former employers are not. They were so infuriated with what I and my now wife did, they quite literally sued themselves out of business trying to put us under. It cost us $150k in legal fees we didn't have but in the end we came out on top.

    Unless you have some disability, there is literally no excuse to not excel in this country. Any lack of help forthcoming from Washington is not holding you back; in fact, you're better off without it. They are nothing more than a barrier in your way. We are now looking forward to shutting this business down or selling it in about 5 years and moving on to our retirement career; opening a craft distillery and cocktail lounge out West.
     
  3. CurrentsITguy

    CurrentsITguy New Member

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    You don't even need that. Draw up a contract, give each other power of attorney, and Blammo! You have all the rights of a married couple.
     
  4. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Freedom *from* government?

    Let's be clear, this should be outed as the absolutely disgraceful proposition that is - the idea that individuals must be completely free to *act* as they might desire, regardless of the consequences for well-ordered relations *between* individuals, ie, rule of law, in our complex modern societies, even more so in a globalising world that urgently needs administration of international rule of law.

    Statist tools? You can keep arming yourself to the teeth if you want, against all the other scary individuals in society, but in the long run an educated, socially aware and economically inclusive society, achieved through rule of law, will be far more effective for the security - and happiness - of *all* individuals.

    "Civilisation is a race between education and catastrophe" HG Wells.
     
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  5. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Well, good on you, well done.

    But do you recall Trump's campaign remarks directed especially to socially and economically disadvantaged, mainly black people, in the inner-city neighbourhoods of the US:

    "You are living in poverty, your schools are broken, your neighborhoods are battle-grounds etc etc ....so you might as well vote for me because I will actually improve schools, hospitals and create jobs etc etc"

    Trump recognises that entrenched poverty is a very real problem that many individuals cannot solve by themselves ALONE - it's an issue requiring well-judged government intervention.

    ... perhaps not the wisest use of the law on their part.

    "Civilisation is a race between education and catastrophe" HG Wells.
     
  6. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    I did produce a link to that study, with far-reaching references, but you won't accept any source that is in conflict with your OPINION.
     
  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You stated it existed but you did not link it.
     
  8. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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  9. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Education and employment are definitely starters and they figure large in someone's development, Attitude as well in the sense of self-discipline at least. The problem is how to ensure people are able to access education and then prepare for employment. The attitude thing might be up to them. If they've grown up in circumstances where no-one gave a toss about work or self-discipline then it's going to be uphill for them. It won't be impossible but if all they've known is slackness it will take some work for them to realise sitting on their arse all day playing X-box isn't going to cut it. That's probably where the education comes in. If barriers can be removed then they have no-one but themselves to blame for their situation. Oh, I mean if there are jobs available after their education I mean.
     
  10. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    And yet 'anti-profit' made some valid points re tax avoidance, clever lawers etc.

    In any case, the rich pay the majority of the tax burden - so what?
    With continually increasing inequality in the presence of abject poverty, the rich should pay far more via progressive taxation, on behalf of the common welfare. Wages at the top are outrageous (neverlone all the investment perks, capital gains available to the rich etc), that's why they need to be progressively taxed into some measure of common decency.

    He was pointing out that 'freedom' is relative, not absolute. His point about free-trade resulting in one's job disappearing overseas is valid, revealing that trade does indeed need to be regulated.

    [We will see how Trump deals with this issue; it looks like TTP and possibly TTIP are gone - but that's not the solution either, because we are all - the entire global population - in this together. {Ofcourse for Trump, it's only *his* people (Americans) who "are all in this together", but I like his sentiment anyway)].

    Revenge against the left? The entire global economic system is dysfunctional,
    and the right has to bear its share of the blame. Hint: an ideology based *solely* on self-interest will never succeed in eliminating society's ills; self-evidently some countervailing global oversight, in a global economy, is also needed (and that annoying refugee problem would disappear if all nations were guided to at least some decent level of prosperity).
     
  11. CurrentsITguy

    CurrentsITguy New Member

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    It is not an either/or proposition. Are there problems in those sorts of areas? You bet? Are there also certain cultural and social problems in those areas that contribute to their plight? Without a doubt. Ultimately no amount of help will succeed without the active help and cooperation of the actual community in question.
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Sadly alternet is your typical environmental scare site. Fracking causes earth quakes, links you to a USGS page that there are increasing numbers of earth quakes in areas where fracking is happening and that they are trying to find out if there is a link. The problem is that almost anywhere you have oil or gas you also have fault lines that create what are known as a stratigraphic traps. Fault lines can be dormant for long periods of time only to release for reasons that are generally explained as the stored energy being more than the formations surrounding them can resist. The last major quake even remotely near was the New Madrid Quake just over 2 centuries ago which seismologist estimate at an eight. Fault lines will release stored tension at some point and the longer that energy is stored the more powerful the quake.

    You should also note that we are in the infancy of earth quake prediction and that's with surface plates that are readily observable. Things that range from 1500 to 25k feet under ground are simply unpredictable. And please tracking has been going on for more than 75 years in Oklahoma why are we only now beginning to see quakes?

    Most of the rest of what it post is not science but unproven allegations.
     
  13. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Chicken and egg situation? I agree self-help, positive attitude, goal-setting, and determination to succeed are essential ( and necessary for good morale), at an individual level.

    But in Trump's identified poverty-stricken 'inner-city neighbourhoods', these things are in short supply (except perhaps in the self-help manifesting itself in criminal behaviour).

    This is the great challenge of our day - identifying the programs required to equip these socially and economically disadvantaged local *communities* (and the individuals in them) with the skills and resources required to change their vision from one of poverty to one of prosperity.

    Undoubtably the best solutions (as I think you realise) will require two-way communication: from government to the community, and from community leaders to the relevent state and federal governments.
     
  14. CurrentsITguy

    CurrentsITguy New Member

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    No doubt. Unfortunately currently I see it as a bit of a "You can lead a horse to water" situation.

    It's like a child who had a lousy upbringing. You are still capable of, and expected to, make a life for yourself. No one really cares if you run around all day and shout "Woe is me! I had it bad!". You boss doesn't care, nor do your coworkers, or the people you interact with.

    In that sense, regardless of the impediments placed in your way, the onus is on you to excel despite the stumbling blocks.
     
  15. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Congrats! You have officially posted one of the stupidest things I have ever read here.
     
  16. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Why is it stupid?
     
  17. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    And you HAVENT lost ANY of these rights. What you WANT is to be an ******** without any social repercussion, and in fact to have society uphold your arseholiness.
     
  18. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    REALLY????

    Ecological conservation practices are designed to offset the damaging effect of LONG-TERM irresponsibility regarding exploitation of our natural resources. Several multi-million dollar lawsuits against fracking have been won in Texas and Pennsylvania, and many others have been filed in California , Ohio, Oklahoma, North Carolina, North Dakota, etc.
    https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/09/new-fracking-lawsuit-already-nailed-by-koch-bros/
    http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/hydraulic_fracturing_fracking

    Allegations were initiated by the scientific community after investigating complaints.

    Even Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson, one of the most outspoken proponents of fracking, filed a suit protesting fracking in his own community.
    http://www.ecowatch.com/exxon-ceo-j...project-because-it-will-deval-1881867728.html

    (Rex is Trump's choice for SOS.)

    Your denial parallels the public derision of Noah for building the Ark.
     
  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect civil court does not provide scientific evidence of anything. All it proves is that someone felt sorry for someone and thought they should get some money for their problems with no regard whatever to the proven facts. OJ was found innocent in criminal court but got hammered in civil court. Dow corning went out of business over silicon breasts implants never mind that there was no evidence what ever to prove that silicon breast implants were linked in any way to the issues the women suing complained of. Citing civil court actions as proof of anything is like citing maggots as the cause of death.
     
  20. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, your personal opinions are far less credible than ANY of the sources I have cited. Your arguments lack substance, logic, and verification.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Everything I said is true, and you know it. You just don't like it because It doesn't fit your preferred narrative.
     
  22. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    Right. . . . You refuse to acknowledge all evidence contradicting YOUR narrative, which is based only on the illusion of your self-proclaimed OMNIPOTENT WISDOM. . . . ALWAYS an UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINION. . . . Your words are meaningless.
     
  23. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With the millions of new laws, statutes, and regulations, I know that we are less free now than when I was a kid back in the 1960's.

    Didn't John Stossel find that the average American breaks at least 3 or 4 laws per day? We are so tightly regulated.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No evidence worthy of the name was presented. If you knew even the basics of geology and science you'd know that.
     
  25. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    I took a 5 credit course in geology in college that was quite comprehensive, and relating my education in the various facets of science would take more time than I am willing to waste on this reply. If you post further insults or unsubstantiated opinions, don't expect a response.
     

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