From Atheism To Faith In God ~ The Unbelieving Scientist And The Creationist

JAG Writes:
From Atheism to Saving Faith In God

Scientist: I sometimes wonder if our "Natural Selection" can actually carry the heavy
load we have placed upon it?

Creationist: I too have some doubts. I don't always fully understand the Creation Story
in Genesis. Some of your fellow scientists have accused me of believing in a "talking
snake"

Scientist: Well, they ought not to have accused you of that. Obviously the snake was
metaphorical language, everybody knows snakes cannot talk.

Creationist: Thanks I'm glad you understand that. The snake represented Evil and
delivered the message that Evil always delivers.

Scientist: What message is that?

Creationist: That humans can be their own God.

Scientist: I don't understand. What do you mean "be their own God"?

Creationist: Its easy to understand. The snake, that is Evil, told Eve that if she ignored
God's commands and did what she wanted to do, that she would become like God.

Scientist: What was the exact words and where is that found?

Creationist: The exact words were "you will be like God" and its found in Genesis 3:5

Scientist: You believe Christ saved us from Evil, is that correct?

Creationist: Yes that's right, the Lord Jesus saved us from Evil, the Evil that will destroy
our souls if we do not have a Savior to deliver us from the strength and power of Evil.

Scientist: I don't understand that. Explain to me how Jesus can deliver us from Evil and
prevent us from being destroyed by it.

Creationist: Jesus took your punishment on the Cross.

Scientist: I don't understand that. That makes no sense to me.

Creationist: Its not difficult to understand, Evil is not only severely punishable but it will also
destroy the total person if it is not stopped and reversed.

Scientist: You said Evil is punishable?

Creationist: That is correct. The Bible teaches that God will punish all men who do evil.

Scientist: Well, I know that all men have done at least some Evil.

Creationist: That is correct and God will punish men for all their Evil if they do not believe
in His Son the Lord Jesus who took their punishment in their place.

Scientist: In their place?

Creationist: Yes in their place on the Cross. Christ took your punishment so you would
not have to bear it yourself.

Scientist: Where in the Bible does it say that?

Creationist: In 1 Peter 2:24 it says "He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross,
so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been
healed."

Scientist: My mother taught me the words of John 3:16 when I was a young boy, and I
have never forgotten them, it goes like this "For God so loved the world that He gave
His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life."

Creationist: Yes, for God so loved the world that He punished His own Son for the sins
of the world so that we humans would not have to bear the excruciating pain and agony
that Christ bore for us on the Cross.

Scientist: I once, long ago, prayed the sinner's prayer. I remember I prayed to God
something along the lines of "Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your
forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my
sins and invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You
as my Lord and Savior."

Creationist: Did you understand what you were praying?

Scientist: No at the time I did not. In fact I have never understood it.

Creationist: There is nothing more profound than the simple words of John 3:16.

Scientist: Christianity has always seems complicated to me. Are you saying that
Christianity is simple and not complicated?

Creationist: Yes and quite simple too.

Scientist: Can you give an example of Christianity's simplicity?

Creationist: A man known to be a brilliant intellectual was asked to deliver a speech to
a college assembly and he was asked to present the most profound truth he had ever
come across in his decades of studies. When the time came for his speech, he walked
to the podium and looked out over the audience for a long time, without saying a word.
Time passed and people began to get nervous. At long last the speaker spoke and he
said this, "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so." Then without saying
another word he went back to his seat. Many in the audience wept silently as the
supernatural power of the Holy Spirit made that brief message real to their hearts.

Ending:

The Scientist once again prayed the simple sinner's prayer and he prayed from his heart
"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You
died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come
into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

Then an amazing thing happened. The supernatural power of the Holy Spirit enlightened
the mind of the Scientist so that he could now understand spiritual truths and the Scientist
turned away from his Atheism and became a believing Christian.

__________________

"The Lord Has Laid On Him The Iniquity Of Us All" , , ,
"He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all."
Isaiah 53:3-6

JAG

``

 

Methinks thou protesteth overmuch...

 

He's given up on the evolution thread then, got to try some other nonsense. He's certainly a sheep.....

 

Thank you for your comment.
I wrote the OP intending it to illustrate the power of the gospel
to convert an unbelieving scientist to saving faith in the Lord
Jesus, This does happen in the world, The OP has nothing
to do with any kind of protest.

Best.

JAG

__________


Thought For Today.
"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe
in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be
saved."___Romans 10:9



``

 

Diablo,
Thank you for your comment.
I can tell you are a kind-hearted person who is courteous
and respectful and I appreciate that.

I have not given up on the Evolution Thread and plan to
make posts in that thread as interest dictates.

And thank you for calling me a sheep. I am a sheep.
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall
never perish; no one will snatch them out of my
hand."___The Lord Jesus John 10:27-28

Best.

JAG

``

 

Why did God also say that Adam and Eve would become "like God" after eating the fruit?

 

gnosis

 

There are also plenty of examples of Christians converting to other faiths or no faith at all too. All this seems to show is that nobody really knows what the right answer is, even those currently unshakably convinced that they are entirely right and that everyone would be better off if they all believed exactly the same thing they do.

 

A lot of scientists are in one religion or another. Mostly because that's the way they were raised.

Someone that bangs on about religion as much as you do is working at persuading himself more than others.

 

That is true HonestJoe, there are plenty of examples of both.

However I can tell you what the Bible says about "Christians"
who convert to other faiths or leave the Christian faith --- and
I fully understand that you will not accept the Biblical explanation,
nonetheless I will tell you so you will at least know what the Bible
says about it.

You don't have to believe it true, in order to know what the Bible
teaches about Christian apostates.

I'm pretty sure you have heard this before, nonetheless here it is , , ,

And I will not be coy --- I will give you the propositions up front
and then give you the Bible verses.

Propositions:
{1} Once a true Christian --always a true Christian.

{2} No true Christian will ever leave the fold of
Christianity.

{3} Many people give Christianity "a try" and when
Christianity fails to give them what they demanded
from God -- they get disappointed and they quit.

{4} Anybody who quits Christianity was never a true
Christian in the first place.

{5} Many people "join the church" like they would "join
the Lions Club" and when their expectations are not
met by the organization they joined -- then they quit
and go somewhere else to find what they were
looking for in the first place -- which was NOT to
actually love and obey God -- but "to get something"
for themselves -- egs. $ money, job-success Etc

{6} Many people will "join a Christian Church" ONLY
for professional reasons. For example if you are a
Medical Doctor in a small town of say 8000 people
and if you want your medical practice to be successful
you HAD BETTER join one of the biggest and most
popular Christian Churches in that town -- otherwise
you will be branded a "heathen" by the townsfolks
and your medical practice will suffer for it.
This is especially true in the South in the United States.
The South is known as the "Bible Belt" in America.

{7} The Christian Church is NOT an "organization" where
people can "join" like one would join the Boy Scouts.
One must be "born into" the Christian Church like the
Lord Jesus said in John 3:3 "you must be born again."

___________________


There are several Bible verses teaching that true Christians
do not ever quit the faith. I will give you 2 of them , , , ,

1 John 2:19
Regarding Christian apostates , , ,
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with
us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

{1} They went out from us

{2} but they did not really belong to us.

{3} For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us

{4} but their going showed that none of them belonged to us



_________________________________________________

John 10:24-30
"The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying,
“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the
Messiah, tell us plainly.”

Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.
The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
but you do not believe because you are not my
sheep.
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall
never perish; no one will snatch them out of my
hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is
greater than all; no one can snatch them out of
my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

{1} but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

{2} My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they
follow me.

{3} I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

I understand that it does look that way, however consider
this point below , , ,

The Lord Jesus gave His Christian Church the task
called The Great Commission in Matthew 28 -- so we
Christians have a Christian duty and obligation to be
obedient to Jesus' command to "go and make disciples
of all nation."

Jesus' Great Commission To His Christian Church , , ,
"Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven
and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make
disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching
them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely
I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 29:18-20

I sure do not know anywhere near even 1/12 of what I wish
I knew -- but I do know that John 3:16 is true -- For God
so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son , , ,

I am NEVER "entirely" right on everything.
My view is that the gospel is true and I had nothing to
do with the origination of the gospel which is the "good
news" that the Father loved the world enough to send
His Son to die on an Old Rugged Cross to pay for for
the sins of Humankind.

It is true that I am "unshakably convinced" that
John 3:16 is true and I therefore proclaim it -- which,
as a Christian, is what I am supposed to be doing.

I am not like that. I do not believe that.
Thou Shall Not Clone , , ,
I would love very much for you to become a Christian
because I know from decades of experience that you
would come to love the Lord Jesus with all your heart,
once you "got to know Him" -- but other than that I am
aware that all people are individuals and they have a
right to be different in their beliefs. There is widespread
individualism among the world's 2.4 billion Christians.

I am not out to clone anybody. I am merely just one man
among some 7 to 8 billion people on Planet Earth.
1 of 8,000,000,000

Best.

JAG

 

"No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample."
Wiki

 

You don't half go on! You could really to to try to make your points in a much more concise manner. You seem to have used all of those words to contradict your stated point that the gospel is such a powerful tool for converting non-believers since now you're saying that many of those converts aren't "true" Christians after all. I don't see how you can have it both ways.

 

True.
But that has absolutely nothing to do with my OP, which is
a very simple story that I made up to illustrate the truth
of John 3:16 and the power of the gospel to bring salvation
to unbelievers.

You can't prove that.
But let us agree for the sake of argument that you are correct.
God is Sovereign over the lives of His people and if God
chooses to have one of His people born into a family that
are say Southern Baptists -- then that is a good thing. That
is merely God's Sovereign Good Plan for one of His children.

We're In The Religion Department For Goodness Sake , , ,
What you wrote does not make any sense. I mean no sense at all.
Why not?
Because we are in the Religion Department of the Forum
so what else do you want me to "bang on about" inside the
Religion Department other than Religion?

By the way, is there some Force that draws you to my OP's?

Do you feel a Force urging you to "go read" JAG's OP's
and posts?

Why are you in the Religion Department of the Forum if you
think that I "bang on" about religion? Evidently you think
Religion is not very important -- so why do you read my
OP's and my posts?
______________

Don't misunderstand, I am glad that you are here and I
appreciate some of your comments and I appreciate you
reading some of what I write. I hope you continue to do that.

________________

Your principle is: What you post about is what you are trying to
persuade yourself is true.
So that principle would apply to YOU also.
What YOU post about is YOU trying to persuade yourself
of the truth of what YOU post about --- if you want to be
consistent, you have to say that.

Best.

JAG

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I
will give you rest."___The Lord Jesus Matthew 11:28


``

 

Just because some dude somewhere coined a phrase
"No True Scotsman" and then called it a "fallacy" does
NOT mean that the dude was correct.

I will stand on this , ,

1 John 2:19
Regarding Christian apostates , , ,
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with
us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

______________

You can believe whatever you want to believe about Christian
apostates. Just as you can believe that there are true atheists
in the world. I will continue to believe what the Bible teaches
about those issues and will continue to present my Bible
verses and my reasons for my beliefs.

Best.

JAG

"The LORD your God is with you, the Mighty Warrior who saves.
He will take great delight in you; in his love he will no longer
rebuke you, but will rejoice over you with singing."
___Zephaniah 3:17



``

 

I have no remote idea what you are talking about up
there. If I take what you wrote at "face value" then I
have to conclude that your knowledge of Biblical
doctrines is severely lacking.

There is not a single shred of contradiction between , , ,
{1} the gospel being a powerful tool for converting unbelievers
and in
{2} what the Bible says about Christian apostates NOT ever
being true Christians

And if you think there is a contradiction between {1} and {2}
then your knowledge of Biblical doctrines is severely limited.

"I don't see how you can have it both ways"___HonestJoe
Because BOTH are true.
BOTH {1} and {2} up-post are true -- and its unreasonable
to even think for a second that there is a contradiction
between {1} and {2}.

How about this to illustrate the point:

{1} John decided to join the Boy Scouts
{2} John did join the Boy Scouts.
{3} John learned the Boy Scout Code Of Honor
{4} John never really in his heart thought it was a good Moral Code.
{5} But John, for all outward appearances, was a good Boy Scout.
{6} John even helped old ladies cross the busy highway.
{7} But John, in his heart, hated old ladies, and wanted to hurt them
(8} When no one was around, John would find old ladies and shove them to the ground.
{9} John finally decided to quit and leave the Boy Scouts.
So?
So John was NEVER a true Boy Scout.

What does that mean?
Is that even an English sentence?
"You don't half go on!"__HonestJoe
????
I have no remote clue about what that means.

I did exactly that.
I put ALL my propositions UP-FRONT for you to read
and even numbered them.

if you're not interested enough to carefully read a post
that you are responding to-- then you could just ignore
it and then proceed to locate some posts somewhere
that you ARE interested in carefully reading.

There are many people whose posts consists of just
4 or 5 words or 2 or 3 short sentences. You could
zero in on those type posts if you are a man that
prefers "few words" in the posts you read. Its not
my style to characteristically write short posts. But
here is the good news >> you don't have to read
what I write.

But don't misunderstand --- I appreciate you reading
some of what I write and I appreciate some of your
comments and I welcome your ideas.

Best.

JAG

"Start children off on the way they should go, and
even when they are old they will not turn from it.'
___Proverbs 22:6


`

 

Your "No True Scotsman Fallacy" is ITSELF a huge Fallacy.

How would you apply your "No True Scotsman" so-called "fallacy"
to John down there ? , , ,

{1} John decided to join the Boy Scouts
{2} John did join the Boy Scouts.
{3} John learned the Boy Scout Code Of Honor
{4} John never really in his heart thought it was a good Moral Code.
{5} But John, for all outward appearances, was a good Boy Scout.
{6} John even helped old ladies cross the busy highway.
{7} But John, in his heart, hated old ladies, and wanted to hurt them
(8} When no one was around, John would find old ladies and shove them to the ground.
{9} John, after 3 years as a Boy Scout, finally decided to quit and leave the Boy Scouts.

So?

So John was NEVER a true Boy Scout.

_____________


Always Was ? Was He?
So on your "No True Scotsman" thingy, you'd have to conclude that
John was ALWAYS true Boy Scout -- even though there was never
a time when John truly believed in the Boy Scout Moral Code Of
Honor.

The No True Scotsman Fallacy Fallacy , , ,
Here is the truth Original Late:
Your "No True Scotsman Fallacy" is ITSELF a huge Fallacy.

Best.

JAG

__________

"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God raised him from
the dead, you will be saved" __Romans 10:9


``

 

If the gospels were so effective a conversion tool, they'd convert non-believers to "true" Christians and you'd have few, if any, apostates.

Sorry, it's British slang and it didn't cross my mind that it doesn't translate.

You just seem to repeat your points a lot, write unnecessarily long lists, quote the same replies multiple times and the like. Not using full width paragraphs probably doesn't help, meaning small amounts of text still takes up lots of lines. If think you could get more and better engagement with your posts.

 

I do not recall God ever saying that.
Can you help me out with where that is located?

Best.

JAG

"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.
But the greatest of these is love."1 Corinthians 13:13


``

 

Ending:
The scientist, being true to himself,remained a free-thinker.

 

You can not prove that claim to be true.
Yet , ,
That very thing IS happening and we have no reasons
to believe that these believers below are not true Christians.

There are 2.4 billion Christians here on Planet Earth
and Christianity is growing like wildfire in the Global
South. There is a huge underground Christian Church
in China -- House Church. There is a huge enormous
Christian Church in South Korea. Africa is booming
with an active fast-growing Christian Church.

____________

The gospels ARE an effective gospel tool.
Does that make you sad?
Do you desire for Christianity to grow?
Or does it make you unhappy to think that Christianity is
growing huge in the Global South?
Your posts are always warm and friendly to Christianity.
You would love to see Christianity grow huge in the world,
isn't that right?
, , lol , ,

I understand.
You're British?

Easy , , ,
That's easy to explain.
Most posters in this Religion Department are "atheists" and
they will hit the quote button AND quote my post and then proceed
to TOTALLY IGNORE what I have written and then proceed
to make their points as if they had actually addressed what
I wrote.

So?
So I have 2 choices.
{1} ignore them
or
{2} repeat my points.

I often choose {1} , ,
and
I often choose {2}

I like long lists.
My view is they are necessary.

See Easy , , , up-post.

You must not be familiar with modern day journalistic text
formats.
If you check all major magazines they use the narrow columns.

I just checked Forbes Magazine and they use two columns to
the page with each column about 3 1/2 inches wide.

Why do they do that?

Because the vast majority of humanity does NOT like to follow
a line of text some 17 inches across a page -- when it is MUCH
easier on the eye to follow a line of text only 3 and 1/2 inches
in width, or 4 or 5 inches in width.

You Pick {1} or {2} , ,
Look at John 3:16 below in both the 17 inch width text formatting
and in the 4 inch width format , , , ,

, , , and tell me the truth. Which is easier on your eyes? {1} or {2}

{1}
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life .For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

{2}
For God so loved the world that he gave his one
and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall
not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved
the world that he gave his one and only Son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have
eternal life .For God so loved the world that he
gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes
in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

{2} Is Obviously Better On The Eyes , , ,
And especially if your eyes have some age on
them. Don't forget the age factor when you're making
your judgments

Best Regards.

JAG

"If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord
," and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved."
__Romans 10:9



``

 

Genesis 3:22. I still have some old concordances around; I'd have to check, but I think it uses the exact same language that the serpent uses.

 

Incorrect.
The Scientist saw the truth and became a Christian.

{It was my story ~~ not your story. You could write your
own story in your own OP -- and end it like you wanted it
to end -- rather than being in my OP changing the ending
of my story.}

Ending:

The Scientist once again prayed the simple sinner's prayer and he prayed from his heart
"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You
died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come
into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

Then an amazing thing happened. The supernatural power of the Holy Spirit enlightened
the mind of the Scientist so that he could now understand spiritual truths and the Scientist
turned away from his Atheism and became a believing Christian.

JAG

__________

The Last Verse in the Bible.
"The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen."
Revelation 22:21



``

 

It's your claim though. You said your OP was to illustrate how powerful a conversion tool the gospels are but you also said that anyone who ever leaves Christianity was never a "true" Christian and that lots of people just join churches like clubs and aren't "true" Christians either. That would suggest a lot of people who aren't being converted to "true" Christianity and so the tools being used aren't as effective as they could be.

Then why did you say many people join churches for other reasons and therefore aren't "true" Christians. Again, this is your claim, not mine.

I really don't care either way in general. I don't mind what people believe, it's what they choose to do about it that matters, and that varies massively regardless of any religious labels or memberships (as you suggested yourself ).

Sorry but you're no journalist and this isn't a major magazine. Different formatting works better in different contexts.

Option 3 (I didn't even realise it was repeated until I did this);

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

Yes the exact same language on just one part of the verse.

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one
of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to
reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat,
and live forever."__Genesis 3:22

You are correct that God in Genesis 3:22 does repeat part of
what the The Evil said in Genesis 3:5 -- the "knowing good
and evil" part, but only that part.

"For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes
will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing
good and evil."__Genesis 3:5

Back to your question as to why God ALSO said that.
God Always Tells The Truth & Often
The Evil Will Also Tell The Truth
The Evil never tells ALL the truth, but often The Evil will tell
part of the truth when it serves his purposes. What was
The Evil's purpose in Genesis 3 ?

Answer: it was to entice humanity to disobey God.
When they agreed to do that -- they became, de facto,
their own God --- by the way, this is why "atheism"
is a Religion. It has a Supreme Being. The Supreme
Being is the Self. There is nothing Higher in the
Religion Of Atheism than the Self.

___________

Mercy & Grace , , ,God Did Not Want Man
To Live Forever In Their Sin-Nature Condition , , ,
"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one
of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to
reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat,
and live forever." __Genesis 3:22

"not be allowed to" , , , ,"live forever"__God
My view:
God instituted Death upon humanity to prevent them from
experiencing the pain and agony of "living forever" in their
now Sinful Fallen Condition.

He then provided a remedy for their Sin, namely He sent His
one and only Son the Lord Jesus to die for the sins of humanity
on the Cross.

The Sin Problem has now been forever solved.

"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though
he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you
through his poverty might become rich."__2 Corinthians 8:9

JAG


``

 

> I sometimes wonder if our "Natural Selection" can actually carry the heavy
load we have placed upon it?

Define "heavy load."