Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis deserves never to be reelected District Attorney or for that matter to hold another public office at the state or Federal level for her abuse of her current Office. It is disgraceful, unjust and dangerous to America's Democracy to have prosecutors charging people with a crime on a theory that does not allow for a reasonable person's interpretation of the underlying facts which does not see criminal behavior being committed. Prosecutors are supposed to be fair that is their fundamental duty they are not supposed to spin the facts to find that a crime has been committed, doing so is just plain wrong and that is what Fani Willis has done here! This indictment against Donald Trump and the other eighteen people charged assumes that the 2020 presidential election in Georgia was fair that these people challenging the Georgia election results were trying to steal the elections, it assumes that the absolute, God honest truth is that Joe Biden won the Georgia Presidential election that year. When in fact the absolute God honest truth is that based on what happened in the counting of the ballots in that election is that it is impossible to know for sure who won that election. What happened at the State Farm Arena election night in the counting of the ballots unrepairably tarnished that election, it destroyed the integrity of the election. Now the state of Georgia had multiple investigations about what transpired at the State Farm Arena and all the investigations found no fraud was committed in the counting of the ballots at that ballot counting center. All these findings do not restore the integrity of the election at all, the American people's trustworthiness of the Georgia's election was irreparably destroyed by what happened at the State Farm Arena on November 3rd 2020. The pro-indictment folks could get every media personality and every media commentator to say that the Georgia election ballot counting was fair and they would be wrong because the facts don't support that conclusion. The facts of what happened at this ballot counting center in Fulton County are uncontestable the Georgia's Secretary of State's Office investigation uncovered the actual truth of what happened which was the person in authority at the State Farm Arena shut down the ballot counting around 10:30 pm on Nov. 3rd even thought there was opened ballots that were uncounted. Because of this fact the person in authority for elections in Fulton County called the State Farm Arena and ordered these opened but uncounted ballots be counted before the Center shut down for the evening. So the gentlemen in authority at the Arena announces to the staff on the floor around 10:45 pm that ballot counting is to resume for the evening and continue until all the opened ballots are counted. There was just one procedural problem with this gentleman's instructions to the staff which was that the State Election Board's monitor had left for the evening as well as the Republican monitors and the media because they were told the ballot counting for the evening was shut down. This procedural error resulted in the ballots counting floor having no state monitor and ballots being counted for approximately one hour before the state election board monitor arrived back at this ballot counting center; this procedural error irreparably tainted the ballot counting at the center it destroyed the integrity, the trustworthiness, of the ballot count in this election - end of story! What that gentlemen in authority should have done when he announced on the floor that this center was ordered to restart the ballot counting he should have immediately ordered all staff on the floor not putting counted ballots in containers and sealing those containers and putting those containers with the other containers of counted ballots to immediately go to the entrance of the arena and wait for the arrival of the monitors and for the staff still working immediately upon completion of your processing of the counted ballots you also go and wait at the entrance of the arena. This incident at State Farm Arena vindicates Donald Trump and his allies for their advocacy to overturn the Secretary of State's determination that Biden won the election it provided them with the basis to believe the ballot count in the election wasn't fair! District Attorney Fani Willis' indictment is also wrong in that it prosecutes Trump and his allies effort in generating an alternative slate of electoral college electors and submitting it to Congress to be counted as the official results for the state of Georgis claiming it is a crime. Such actions by a candidate of generating an alternative slate and submitting it to Congress for the official count is a pathway recognized by legal experts in our country going back many years for candidates who believe they actually won a state election. The fact that since the 2020 election Congress and the President enacted into law a clarification about the procedure for the electoral college count by Congress that the Vice-President's role in the count is ceremonial that he or she has no authority to reject a state's slate of electoral votes sanctioned by the respective State's Secretary of State. Just an aside note really Congress and the President haven't finished the job in fixing the nation's election laws the law should be changed making it a crime to organize or submit an alternative slate of electors for the electoral college unless this candidate is doing so based on the authority of a court who has ruled the respective candidate should be determined to have won the election or based on the authority of a state legislature which has voted likewise. The current system is very unsettling where it allows a candidate to ignore the nation's laws which set forth a procedure for determining an outcome of an election the Secretary of State to conduct a count of the actual vote and for the candidate to just self certify the candidate as the winner of the election it isn't a system which insures fairness which is what the nation should have. District Attorney Fani Willis's indictment is also wrong because it misuses a vital tool of the criminal justice system, the RICO Act. The RICO tool is a tool to shut down criminal organizations, organizations that are clearly predatory and are victimizing society in a criminal manner. It is not for bringing people into the criminal justice system where you have to stretch to find a crime when a District Attorney tries this move of labeling two or more people a criminal organization when it isn't obvious it is abusing the law it isn't not carrying out the intentions of the Legislature and the Governor in enacting the law and it isn't good public policy the justice system's use should be clearly understood it shouldn't blind side people by netting them where an ordinary reasonable person wouldn't necessarily expect it! In this case one possible good development that it would be great for the country to see is that one or two of the defendant's are pushing to be tried this November let it occur and if this trial turns out to be what one expects of just a repeat of what the nation has seen on cable news where half the nation can legitimately view that Trump and his allies thought Trump was cheated out of the election and were just trying to rectify it and the defendants are largely found not guilty, the governor of Georgia should just pardon Trump and all the defendants in the case offering the reason that it is bad public policy criminally prosecuting people for crimes when close to half the population doesn't believe a crime was committed! One final observation Trump as a President may be good for the economy but he is not very impressive in the loyalty department. Rudy Giuliani gave his reputation as a great leader during the period of 9-11 when he was Mayor of New York and as a U.S. Attorney who decimated the Mafia defending Donald J. Trump over the past seven years whether it be the Russian matters or the impeachment matters or the 2020 election matter, etc.. Guiliani would go on mainstream media and defend Trump a nightmare task because Trump is so unorthodox and so imprudent who gives his enemies the biggest of warehouses filled with ammunition and how does Trump repay that incredible loyalty he won't pay Giuliani's full legal bills on all this Trump stuff and Donald Trump is sitting on a mountain of cash from his multitude of loyal donors! Anyone who gets involved with Trump should think it over very, very, very carefully, he is not a guy you can rely on to have your back!
You apparently misunderstand the meaning of "facts." While anyone might be able to spin a fanciful story, claiming anything we think of as an historical fact, did not actually happen-- until there is proof of this, to outweigh the evidence of what has been, up till now, accepted as the truth, this speculation is an insufficient basis, to justify criminal behavior. FYI, it is, for all intents & purposes, a fact, that Joe Biden won the Georgia Presidential election, in 2020. But that is already, your getting off the topic of your own OP. The DA has the job, and the responsibility, of holding law breakers accountable to the law. In that regard, who won the election, is not even relevant. Threatening an elections official, to pressure him to "find" you more votes, is a crime-- whether or not you won that election. Her indictment is not, then, based on a "theory," but on actual actions, which broke the law. What DAs are not supposed to do, is allow people to violate the laws, just because they can postulate their own theories, that they had been wronged. There are legal methods, to put forth such arguments. There are recounts. But when a candidate loses all of over 60 cases, alleging voting improprieties, and is confirmed the loser by two recounts, then no one who still considers that Trump might have actually won the state, has an interpretation that is legitimately "reasonable." And that is even more indisputably the case, of anyone who thinks that Trump's unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud, entitled him to break laws.
That kind of depends on precisely what you mean by "he won" the election. But I think that issue is mostly irrelevant to these criminal charges. Except we could discuss whether Trump had reasonable reason to believe, or actually believed there had been fraud in the Georgia election.
You are mistaken, on both counts: 1) It is irrelevant, to the basic legality issue, what Trump "believed." Where did you get the idea, that this is how our law works? If someone believes he is using a toy gun, does that make it legal to kill people with it? Even after people have explained to him, that his weapon is real? Or, you would think that, if a person actually believed that the money he'd stolen from a bank, was owed to him, that he could not then be charged with bank robbery? Are you not familiar with the saying, "ignorance of the law is no excuse (for breaking it)?" Trump's beliefs only have an effect, in the determining of specific charges, requiring intent-- that does not make all his criminal activity, "legal." Also, as I'd already written, in the post from which you have snipped but a single sentence: there is a proper way of going about challenging a believed case of election fraud-- legally. To make the case that Trump did not realize that what he was doing was not that legal procedure, would require you to prove his mental incompetence, to stand trial for any crime. Even then, being mentally deficient, is not necessarily a "get it jail free" card-- it often only changes the type of facility, at which the accused will be held. Besides, it defeats his current intentions, to run for President once again-- if his defence for his past actions is that he was not responsible for them, due to limited cognition of the principles of "right" and "wrong." (Though he would, no doubt, still pick up quite a few Republican votes). 2) It is beyond debate, that Joe Biden won the Georgia election for President, in 2020. This was also part of my argument, you'd omitted, and without offering any rebutting counterpoint. Once the results were certified, in December, they were a matter of settled record, "in the books." Let me ask you: do we know, for a fact, that John F. Kennedy won the 1960 Presidential election-- or is it, legally speaking, something that one could contend, did not occur? You realize, I take it, that claims of election fraud, in Chicago, by JFK's father, Joseph Kennedy, are far more credible, than the totally dismissable, unsupported claims, made by Trump? So, was Kennedy in fact, our 35th President-- or is that an unsettled question? Depending on your answer, you will either realize that your assertion was bogus, or you will qualify yourself for a matching white gown, to the one worn by Trump, after being legally deemed incompetent.
As I said, it depends on what precisely you mean by "won". You do realize that the outcome of the election had not been officially finalized at the time Trump made that phone call? That's why Trump was making the call. The election is not totally over until the special electors appointed by the states cast their votes (in the Electoral College) and the outcome has been called. Even after then it would theoretically not be impossible for a state to change their mind and the outcome of the election to be changed, if the federal level of government were willing to recognize it. The state also isn't necessarily bound by its existing state law in a U.S. presidential election, and could always legislate a new law concerning how the votes are to be counted, at the last moment if they believe there is a problem. I believe Georgia law leaves it up to the Secretary of State and the governor to determine the votes.
Republicans say DA should lose job because she dared to indict a Republican based on the Grand Jury decision....
the republican Governor should have been able to just determine Trump won? how about we just use the vote totals
It's not necessarily so simple. Trump was trying to demand they recount the votes, look for any errors, votes that were not counted, look for any evidence of fraud, etc. When a big election is held, it's not necessarily so simple and cut and dried as just counting the votes. The election was very close in GA. It looked like Biden had less than 0.5% more votes.
If you are not going to quote most of my post, or answer any of my arguments, at least it's nice to know that you'd learned something, from my post: But there is no need to quote my information, back to me. Especially if you have no point: Trump requested a recount, and Raffensperger performed one-- that is part of the legal process, of which I'd previously spoken; that is not what Trump is being charged for, and it does not cover Trump's "I just need another 12,000 votes-- gimme a break!" <Google Snip> ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia's top elections official on Monday recertified the state's election results after a recount requested by President Donald Trump confirmed once again that Democrat Joe Biden won the state, and the governor then recertified the state's 16 presidential electors.Dec 7, 2020 https://apnews.com › article › electi... Georgia again certifies election results showing Biden won | AP News <End> Yes-- if, and only if, the Congress voted to question electors, which they did not do. So, what's your point? And I am sure, the Sect'y of State and Governor, prefer to leave that choice to the voters, since they are not anti-Democratic, like more and more on the Right, have become.
The reality that many don't realize is that half the leaders in the Republican Party don't really like Trump, and wouldn't much care if he got thrown under the bus. There is a good chance this county prosecutor may not face any repercussions. I think the Republican leaders in the state of Georgia are afraid if they do anything to intervene, it will look like or be called corruption. And they are very on edge because the recent elections in Georgia have been getting closer, and Georgia is not so far away from tipping towards the Democrat party.
As should be obvious to you, simply just counting the votes like normal is not necessarily "leaving the choice to the voters" if there is suspicion of fraud. I agree that what Trump said was a little bit kind of tantamount to exerting undue influence, but to issue criminal charges for that is absurd.
So, it is "absurd," to enforce laws against corruptly exploiting one's political power, in attempting to coerce others to commit voter fraud, for one's benefit? Interesting. I guess I see your perspective: how could we expect to get ourselves a Fascist strongman, for a leader, if we don't give him plenty of legal leeway, to break the law, in his eliminating of our democratic system's guardrails?
related thread: Corrupt Democrats launch legal attacks against Trump's former chief of staff (posted by kazenatsu in Political Opinions & Beliefs, 9/9/2023 )
