Gazans are responsible for what is happening in Gaza

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Oct 16, 2023.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You don't hear this on the media.

    Palestinians living in Gaza chose the Hamas government. Palestinians living in Gaza could have left Gaza for the West Bank roughly a hundred miles away and the Palestinian government there.

    Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

    The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. Since June 2007, there have been two separate administrations in Palestine, one in the West Bank and the other in the Gaza Strip. The government on the West Bank was generally recognized as the Palestinian Authority Government.
    Gazans chose not to live in Palestine on the West Bank. They chose to live under Hamas rule.


    On Oct. 7, Gaza attacked Israel, killing over 1,400 Israelis and wounding over 3,000.

    NPR reports, "The attack was unprecedented. The surprise attack on Israel by Hamas on Oct. 7 has brought the militant group into the spotlight. In the attack, Hamas fighters flew paragliders from Gaza and used bulldozers to poke gaping holes in a barrier fence to gain access to Israeli territory."

    The media is doing its best to create sympathy for Gazans, showing videos of women and children burdened with belongings walking down a street while omitting essential truths to this horrible tragedy.

    It is interesting that Muslim Egypt is reluctant to help the Muslim Gazans.

    While we can all sympathize, it is self-evident that Gazans are responsible for what is happening to Gazans.
     
  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do suspect that voters were intimidated. The good people just trying to live their lives are merely pawns for Jew haters.
     
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  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    This could real serious real quick.

    ABC reports, "Israel and Hezbollah are bitter enemies that fought a monthlong war in the summer of 2006. Israel considers the Iran-backed Shiite militant group its most serious immediate threat, estimating that Hezbollah has around 150,000 rockets and missiles aimed at Israel.

    "Since the Oct. 7 attack by the Palestinian militant Hamas group on southern Israel that killed more than 1,400 Israeli civilians and troops, tension has been on the rise along the Lebanon-Israel border. Hezbollah fighters fired anti-tank missiles on Israeli army positions and Israeli troops shelled border areas on the Lebanese side of the border.

    "Lebanon’s militant Hezbollah group said Monday it has started destroying surveillance cameras on several Israeli army posts along the border as tension rose following the outbreak of the Israel-Hamas war.

    "Hezbollah’s military media arm released a video showing snipers shooting at and destroying surveillance cameras placed on five points along the Lebanon-Israel border including one outside the Israeli town of Metula.

    "The militant group appears to want to prevent the Israeli army from monitoring movements on the Lebanese side of the border after days of fire exchange that left at least seven people dead, including four Hezbollah fighters, on the Lebanese side."
     
  4. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    No-- what is self-evident, is that you know very little about the situation, and had tried to get caught up, through a very poor internet briefing, into which you'd put limited effort. Yes, your 17 year old fact, is correct: Gazans elected the Hamas political party-- not their military, terrorist wing-- into their government's majority, though still with less than half of the vote (my own source had said 43.5% to 41.5%, for the Fatah party).

    Had you not wondered, why there had not been another election, in all that time-- or had you assumed that the Gaza residents have elected to keep Hamas in power? They haven't. Here's a tip for you: when an electoral system goes almost two decades without an election, it is a strong clue that those in power, have cast off the democratic element, and become autocratic rulers.

    My second question, is how the hell your research could have missed Israel's declaring all of Gaza, because of Hamas, as a "hostile entity." So, just a year after Hamas was elected-- presumably to represent Palestinians in talks over the "two state solution," which was then still receiving lip service (as if Israel really intended to go through with a dividing of their nation); talks, which Israel then refused to have, with Hamas--
    Israel began blockading all of Gaza, with Egypt's help, trying to control by land, sea, and air, everything that went in or came out, including people.

    <Google Snip>
    Blockade of Gaza Strip. In
    autumn 2007 Israel declared the Gaza Strip under Hamas, a hostile entity and approved a series of sanctions that included power cuts, heavily restricted imports, and border closures.5 days ago
    https://www.britannica.com › place
    Gaza Strip - Blockade, Occupation, Conflict - Britannica
    <End Snip>

    Your OP suggests that the people of Gaza could have, at any time, either elected a new government, or just walked over, to live in the West Bank. Both of these, are your uninformed, highly mistaken ideas. Yes, there are terrorists, among the people of Gaza-- but not even close to all two million of them. Hamas has forcibly made themselves the only governing power. And they have gained new recruits over the past 16 years, because of the restrictive stranglehold, Israel has maintained.


    On a more incidental note, your insinuation about Egypt is also misguided. If the people of Gaza left their territory, there is no guarantee, they would be allowed to return. So Egypt would potentially be accepting a million refugees. Nearly all, very poor. And yes, there would be no way to differentiate among them, which might be Hamas terrorists. So it isn't all that surprising, that Egypt is reluctant. At least not to someone, who is not as far out of the loop, as your OP makes it obvious, you are.


    P.S.-- You might want to check out a series of videos, of the opinions of Gaza Palestinians, talking about what life is like for them, under Hamas. The speakers are shown as animations, for their own protection. You will find these videos under the title, "Whispered In Gaza."




     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think most agree that Hamas has to be eliminated, but even Israel realizes that most people in Gaza are not responsible or support his actions, that said, yes, there will be some civilian casualties, hard to avoid when Hamas uses them as human shields
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    While electing Hamas to power was a serious mistake, it was the last election that took place in Gaza. Gaza now has a terrorist dictatorship through no fault of their own. The problem today is not caused by all gazans. It was caused by Hamas and, probably, Iran. If Hamas can be destroyed then the Gazans may accept making Gaza a state of its own with an improvement in the peace prospects. Having a government that is aimed at economic growth would be far far superior to the crazed religious terrorists they have now concerned only with killing Jews. Israel intends to destroy Hamas. I wish them well.
     
  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Gazans are responsible for what Gaza did. They chose the Hamas government.

    The Palestinian government is the government of the Palestinian Authority or State of Palestine. Since June 2007, there have been two separate administrations in Palestine, one in the West Bank and the other in the Gaza Strip. The government on the West Bank was generally recognized as the Palestinian Authority Government.

    Gazans chose not to live in Palestine on the West Bank. They chose to live under Hamas rule.
     
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  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You are not paying attention to the facts. See post immediately above. What part of "Gazans chose not to live in Palestine on the West Bank. They chose to live under Hamas rule." do you not understand?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
  9. independentthinker

    independentthinker Well-Known Member

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    Absolute fact.
     
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Our President is on his way to the Middle East amidst a war.

    Conveniently, a hospital in Gaza City is blown up. If it seems like bad timing for the IDF to blow a target and hit a hospital, that is because it is. Very convenient for Hamas.

    Too convenient. Jordan called off the President’s planned summit with Arab leaders after a deadly explosion at a Gaza hospital killed hundreds. The postponement of the Amman summit comes after Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas withdrew from the scheduled meetings in protest of the attacks.

    Israel blames a faulty rocket fired by Islamic Jihad, another terrorist group calling Gaza their home. Their rockets fail often.

    Which seems more likely. As the President of the United States is traveling to Israel, Israel misfires a rocket, hitting a packed hospital.

    Or, Islamic terrorist groups under heavy fire from the IDF and suffering heavy losses hits the hospital, either accidentally or on purpose.

    Who has the more advanced weaponry?

    In the meantime, Hamas is extremely pleased with the American media as it concentrates on lost women and children, hurt women and children, and dead women and children accompanied by weeping adults. Hamas is yearning for sympathy, and the American media is obliging. Hamas is hoping everyone will forget the murder of over 1,400 Israelis in a sneak attack, and that they will be targeted less.

    One network actually pondered if the President will suggest to Israeli leaders to hold back on targeting Hamas to save civilian lives.

    While we can all sympathize, it is self-evident that Gazans are responsible for what is happening to Gazans.
     
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    ABC reports, "Hamas has previously claimed to have built 500 kilometers -- more than 300 miles -- of tunnels under Gaza. The tunnel system is so extensive and well-known it's referred to by some -- including the Israel Defense Forces -- as the "metro.'

    "As Israel warns of an imminent ground assault in Gaza, one challenge that awaits a potential ground invasion involves a widespread underground tunnel system designed to conceal and cover Hamas militants and execute surprise attacks, experts say."

    The experts may be wrong. The tunnels provide the Israeli troops an opportunity, and they are easily found. Tunnels become dangerous only when they are unknown to the enemy.

    If Hamas troops are in tunnels, their fields of fire are essentially zero. The tunnels could easily become death traps. Tunnels can be blown. All the IDF troops have to know is where are the hostiles. Enemy troops trapped in tunnels could easily become targets for gas weaponry.

    The tunnels will not be a problem for the IDF invasion force. The Israelis know what they are doing.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  12. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Palestinians living in Gaza chose the Hamas government. At any time Palestinians living in Gaza could have left Gaza for the West Bank roughly a hundred miles away and the Palestinian government there.

    While we can all sympathize, it is self-evident that Gazans are responsible for what is happening to Gazans.

    CNN reports, "The US government assesses that Israel “was not responsible” for the blast at a hospital in Gaza on Tuesday, according to the National Security Council, following President Joe Biden’s comments that a Palestinian militant group was behind the strike.

    "A spokesperson for the NSC, Adrienne Watson, said the assessment was based on available reporting, including “intelligence, missile activity, and open source video and images of the incident.”

    “While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” Watson said in a statement on Wednesday.

    Once again the media is not being forthcoming of the obvious.

    Whose weapon hit the hospital can easily be determined by fragments of the weapon. Fragments of the weapon will determine where the munition was manufactured. If it was made by Israel or the U.S., then Israel is responsible. If the fragments show the munition was made by Iran, terrorists in Gaza are responsible.

    Simple.

    The Middle East is ablaze with protests against Israel because Arabs and Arab governments believe Hamas. Obviously, this is an important issue.

    That said, the American media makes no mention of bomb or rocket fragments.

    Why? We don't know that, either.

    Did Hamas remove all the fragments because they would incriminate? If so, that is important to know.
     
  13. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Is Hamas preventing experts from examining the fragments? If so, that is something we should know. It would tell us something important.

    But the media is not saying.
     
  14. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    upload_2023-10-18_20-50-42.png

    They ****ing lied. That hospital is not touched. The parking lot got hit.
     
  15. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    You can complain about holes in your house when you shelter a terrorists who starts a shootout with the police.
     
  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    It is important to know how Gazans felt about Hamas before October 7 and the murderous attack!

    The AP reports, "A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month’s Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.

    "The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research also found plummeting support for President Mahmoud Abbas, who was sidelined by the war but is seen internationally as a partner for reviving the long-defunct peace process.

    "The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people.”

    June 15, 2021
     
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Hamas couldn't be happier with the coverage of the war in Gaza by the American media. Occasionally they remind viewers that Hamas murdered over 1,400 Israelis and kidnapped over 200 hostages, but mostly the coverage is about the terrible toll on Gaza civilians and the number of dead Gaza children.

    The casualties and destruction in Gaza were caused by Hamas, a consequence of their murder raid on October 7.

    In addition, the media is currently spending a lot of time on some unknown official telling Israel to hold off its invasion so that negotiations can continue to free the hostages. The media substantiates all this by spending hours on the slow drip of hostages released by Hamas, two on Friday, two today, and doing exactly what Hamas wants them to do.

    If anything, what this unknown official is saying is a prayer, not a request from the White House or the National Security Council to the IDF. Our President is not in the business of telling Israelis how to fight -- not after 1,400 murders.

    The Times reports, "The Biden administration (false assumption) has advised Israel to delay a ground invasion of Gaza, hoping to buy time for hostage negotiations and to allow more humanitarian aid to reach Palestinians in the sealed-off enclave, according to several U.S. officials. (not the White House)

    "American officials also want more time to prepare for attacks on U.S. interests in the region from Iran-backed groups, which officials said (no name, no authority) are likely to intensify once Israel moves its forces fully into Gaza.

    "The administration is not making a demand of Israel and still supports the ground invasion and Israel’s goal of eradicating Hamas, the group controlling Gaza that killed about 1,400 people in terrorist attacks on Oct. 7, the officials said." Note: the official finally got it right.

    CNN reports, "A senior Israeli official tells CNN there will be “no ceasefire” in Gaza amid US and Qatari efforts to free more than 200 hostages held there by Hamas.

    "The official told CNN they were “not aware” of US calls for a delay to Israel's expected Gaza ground operation, and said both Israel and the US want all the hostages released “as quickly as possible.”

    "But, the official added, “humanitarian efforts cannot be allowed to impact the mission to dismantle Hamas.”
     
  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    The IDF ground invasion of Gaza is beginning!

    CNBC reports, "The Israeli army is increasing its air attacks in Gaza and its ground forces are “expanding their activity” in the Gaza Strip, according to a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces. The news Friday came as a Palestinian data provider said internet service in the Gaza Strip has been cut off by Israeli bombardment.

    "A spokesperson for IDF said Hamas is running part of its campaign from underneath the al-Shifa Hospital in central Gaza. The IDF shared more details of its recent strikes, saying ground troops, fighter jets and drones struck anti-tank missile launch sites, command centers and control centers. The IDF also said operatives of Palestinian militant group Hamas were hit.

    "A large Israeli ground incursion into the Gaza Strip still appears likely, but humanitarian groups have warned against such a move, citing the worsening conditions for those trapped in the resource-deprived and blockaded enclave.

    "On Thursday, violence in the Middle East escalated as U.S. President Biden ordered fighter jet strikes in eastern Syria, targeting facilities used by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

    "The U.S. Department of Defense said the strikes were in retaliation for attacks on U.S. forces."
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, most Gazans do not have permission from Israel to go to the West Bank.
     
  20. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    I notice you didn’t address why they couldn’t just leave and go to the West Bank.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Trouble with that is the last time a survey was conducted the only groups with more popular than Hamas are even crazier.
     
  22. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    For once sir we are in agreement.
     

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