SPIEGEL Interview with George Soros: 'You Need This Dirty Word, Euro Bonds' ... I've been saying this all along: Eurobonds, the sooner the better! Of course the Brits will not like that idea 'cuz it will marginalize them, their currency and the City, even further. Part 2 will be up soon, I first need to read it.
As usual, you Euros want to do what's best for yourselves and not for Britain. Well, we say stuff Europe!
Why would any self respecting member of the anglo-sphere want to become the wards of the Germans anyway? Aren't there any old people over there angry at these developments? I mean surely there HAVE to be some left over bad feelings from the war, there is no way people just suddenly forgave and forgot millions of deaths hundreds of billions in destruction, a holocaust, and who caused it. I want to know why Europe's old generations would allow themselves to literally be conquered by Germany economically where twice they failed by war. I mean seriously millions died to prevent being forced from joining a German led Reich and here now they are literally begging the Germans to take them over? A full European Union would be exactly what Hitler envisioned building by force of arms. What a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing joke! Janpor should be ashamed of himself. His grandfather suffered under the grandfathers of the next door neighbor and he would join into a full country with them? That's beyond insane. I find it hard to believe there are no grudges held over there.
"The Brits" don't all think the same way. Our Chancellor, George Osborne, says that "The eurozone countries need to accept the remorseless logic of monetary union that leads from a single currency to greater fiscal integration. Solutions such as eurobonds now require serious consideration if investors are to be convinced about the long–term future of the euro." Most of the Westminster bubble's insiders support him in this, either because they support an integrated Europe or because they fear being deselected by their party if they don't. Either way, European integrationism rolls on. On the other hand, the majority of the public don't want to be drawn even further under EU control, which is an inevitable consequence of EU membership, and especially by an EU in which anything is dictated by Berlin. And it's clear that it's being in the EU which will marginalise the City even further. Can't wait.
Or because of Black Wednesday. The fact that this is coming from "the man who broke the Bank" will no doubt cause trepidation (and rightfully so).
Allowing the EU to issue bonds will be the beginning of the END! The EU has too much power as it is. Government debt just benefits big investors at taxpayer expense. Unless it is a war-time emergency, any government entity has no good reason to be spending money it does not have! If the EU is allowed to issue bonds, it will just run up a huge quantity of debt, and use all the temporary revenues to increase its own political power over the member nations. Guess who is going to end up paying the bill when it eventually comes due? You see, people tend not to complain if the government is spending too much money, so long as it is not apparent to them how much it will eventually end up costing them in taxes. Americans, for example, would never stand for such high levels of military spending if they had to have been paying taxes for it. The government just got more loans to put off the unwanted expenses until some distant future time, when hopefully someone else would have to deal with the problem of paying.
For the people interested, Part 2 was interesting but was mainly about China and the USA. You can access it by clicking in on the link in my OP.
... Your story doesn't add up since it curses with the very European institutions that are in place. Eurobonds will not lead to the European Commission taking up the role as the Executive Branch, like e.g. the White House in the USA. That is not what this is about. No, Eurobonds will be the end of the beginning -- laying a foundation for the creation of an independent European Ministery of Finance among other things. It's essential for the creation of a United States of Europe that will function as a first line of defense, a sort of umbrella under which we will all be able to seek shelter. Of course, indeed, there is a danger that Eurobonds will lead to an era of reckless spending and not putting though neccesseray reforms in countries like Spain or Greece since it will take pressure of the kettle initially... Putting in place the right policies should prevent this as far as I'm concerned.
Indeed, this is the so-called "spill-over effect" in European politics and the process of European integration. Anyhow, it's well-known and a proven fact from a historic perspective, that the Conservatives in the UK are not neccessarily champions of the EU (which is an understatement ), but they surely are "champions of the European Common Market". It's only a matter of time before the British Pound will be replaced by the Euro. No, no. If the UK would place herself out of the EU she would, at the same time, sign her death warrant because of complete and utter marginalization and irrelevance in the larger scope of things. British politicians only realize all of this way too well, saying it out load would be nothing less than political suicide. As the Eurozone now has become the motor of European integration, the British -- sooner than we all think -- will need to make a choice between joining the Euro or facing total irrelavance. A bitter pill to swallow for sure, but there is nothing y'all can do about it. It was interesting but had little to do with the discussion I made this thread for.
... Native English-speaking folks seriously need to get their heads checked, all of them. If I would use a Darwinistic approach, it's clear to all that Continental Europeans are the most resiliant of all peoples. No, only in the UK. The British are the only ones that still aren't over WWII together with Americans, who think their victory in WWII gave them a free-pass to hegemony for enternity -- which clearly isn't the situation on the ground nowadays since America's power means nothing more these days despite all the "bling-bling" that American politicians and opinion-makers inject in the mind of the average American. The biggest problem that the EU faces these days, is that Germany is rather unwilling to assume her natural leadership role in the scope of the European project. I understand that this thought scares Americans, cuz y'all only fear 4 peoples: Mexicans, Russians, the Japanese and the Germans. No! Europeans had to suffer 50 years of humilation by some country across the Atlantic that isn't even able anymore to put a man in space independently. It's our time now. Compating Hitler, the NSDAP and Nazism with European integration is laughable at best. Are you saying that I *need* to hate some random German because *some* German shot at my granny when she was a teenager or because a random V-bomb killed by greatgrandmother? I don't think so. Not surprising considering your nationality -- many Americans don't "buy into" Global Warming or Evolution.
Americans are innovators, just when things are at their worst, when everyone is writing us off, some Bill Gates or Zuckerburg type guy will invent something world changing that will bring America back from the brink. Even at it's sickest, our economy still dwarfs Europe's. Our people still make more money per Capita, our products are still cheaper, we still have more living space and a more diverse society. We have everything you want to be already. We just haven't quite figured out how to leverage it in the 21st century. "Natural Leadership Role" LMAO. Germans are among the hardest working most frugal people on the planet and you expect them to jump at the chance to transfer the collected wealth of that hard work and frugality to the lazy southern Euros in Greece & Italy? LMAO, WRONG. We've done the "American" thing now and after developing spaceflight to maximum potential have now unleashed it to the private sector for those big nasty evil corporations you fear so much to find a way to make money, while our JPL lab is building and testing the latest engine designs that will allow that Private Sector to mine the moon and asteroids, etc. We'll be the first ones to successfully commercially exploit space. The EU and China are way behind on that front. 2 Generations ago your grandfathers were murdering each other in the fields of your own country because Germany wanted to conquer it and use it as a means to get their hands on French Throats. You were TWICE subjugated. In WWI the King had to blow up the dams and locks and flood 1/4 of the country to keep the Germans at bay while the BRITISH fought to keep what was left. In WWII you were completely conquered, and BRITISH and AMERICANS died trying to cross several bridges to save your sorry butts. If you have any respect for their memory, hell yes. I'm not one of them. I can just see how corrupt politicians, teamed up with rent seeking "green" industrialists have managed to whip up a wild hysteria that they are using to make money, the same way a Televangelist begs for donations on TV to help "spread the word"
It's also known as a "beneficial crisis". Beneficial to the EU that is. The EU loves a crisis. It uses them to as an excuse to increase its own power as it did when Al Qaeda attacked the US. It needed more power to "protect" us from terrorism. Having said that, it was extremely stupid to set up the single currency without fiscal integration, so I can see the necessity of more integration to the integrationists. The Conservatives might not be champions of the EU, but that didn't stop them integrating us into the EU in the form of four of the EU treaties without the electorate's informed consent, and it's no thanks to the Conservatives that we are not eurozone members now. Even now, they still like to drone on about how they want us to be "in Europe" but "not run by Europe". They're fatuous. Dream on. Our political class would probably like to see that even now, but the decision isn't theirs to make, and no one (apart from Europhiles) is even sure whether the euro will survive much longer. Absolute rubbish. There are many countries outside of the EU functioning perfectly well and often better. We'll prosper just fine. Don't worry yourself about us. British politicians are looking after their own interests which are most definitely not the same as the British people's. What? I said "can't wait" in response to you when you said "Part 2 will be up soon, I first need to read it. " Now Part 2 has little to do with why you made this thread?
What statistics are you looking at? They're roughly the same size, with the EU's being marginally larger. I agree with the rest of what you said about space and product prices, though. Hogwash. Leverage what? Are you planning on "liberating" (read: carpet bombing) S&P into submission? Mmm, lovely. Can't wait for that... You don't care about the earth, so I suppose it comes as no surprise that you wouldn't be bothered in the least by lunar exploitation. This, of course, is the natural progress of human thinking. Are you bothered by the fact that the US is aligned with the UK, despite the Revolution? Despite the War of 1812? Just imagine the people alive during the Great Rapprochement -- the British burned the American capital a few generations ago, and there the two nations were aligning their interests. Surely you of all people -- you displaying a Union Jack button in your profile picture, no less -- don't take issue with this? Also, jan: If you think the Americans "humiliated" Western Europe during the Cold War, you have a very... shall we say, interesting view of that particular time in history. If it wasn't for the Americans, the Soviets would have gobbled up the entire continent. When an American diplomat congratulated Stalin on his armies reaching Berlin, Stalin stated that Russian forces had reached Paris under Alexander I and that he could have managed the same. I can think of no convincing reason why the Soviets wouldn't have treated the French (or indeed anyone behind the Red Army's lines) in the same way that they did, say the Polish. You all owe us Americans a lot. Now, obviously there are many Americans who never left the 20th century (in more ways than one) and who are constantly harping about the Nazis and such. I'm not one of them, as you obviously are aware. But that's not to say that 70 years ago the Americans didn't liberate Europe, or that in the ensuing period we didn't defend the rest of your continent from Soviet aggression. You seem rather ungrateful for all of that.
Europe will never be one nation EVER. The Romans couldn't make it work despite hundreds of years of effort. Napoleon tried it and failed. Hitler tried and failed. The Soviets had a go at it in Eastern Europe and it failed. And the EU will fail to, hopefully without the loss of innocent life that occurred in the aforementioned examples. I don't hate Europe, I love the nations of Europe as a brotherhood of INDEPENDENT nations, not a EUSSR that the loopy left and the neo-cap right are colluding to create for their mutual political ends. The EU must be brought to a peaceful end.
I laugh when Europeans listen to Soros. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Be very wary of what this man says. He's proposing and offering his opinion for his monatery gain not for the well being of Europe in general.
