Germany shaken between the West and Russia

Germany is the US closest ally? I though so and I wish it was.

Russia must be stopped with it's imperialistic policy? I though so and I wish it could be.


Why do I have doubts?

1. My doubts are painful, I am german.
2. My doubts are justified

NSA affaire and the constant refusal of the US to sign an anti-spy agreement with Germany is unacceptable. Unacceptable at least, if the US does want Germany to be it's ally.

To spy on friends is an abolut "no go" and any excuses coming from Washington, wont be respected here. About that, we do have an consesus among all political parts.

What I think what must be done:

- Germany must built up its own cyber-internet technology (Germany is technically easily able to do so)
- US embassy must either leave the capital or respect that it will be controlled as long as there is no anti-spy agreement.
-Germany mus built up it's own nuclear power and politely ask the Nato to leave the country, including american nukes who must be removed from here
- Germany shall build up a military force in the EU as an independent alternative to Russia / NATO

Russia must be stopped by frightening other europeans, especially the Baltic countries and Poland.
Germany must be side on side with the polish under the condition that Poland wont let american Nukes be stationned on polish territory.


NATO and close partnership is to me the better way - with the USA!

But for that, all spy activities must be stopped on us. I do feel personally insulted to be considered as a terrorist from the USA in such a general way - I also want that all responsibles for the NSA affaire will and must be punished in Germany as far as they did spy on us.

Imagine your best friend starts to step in your back! How would you react? I love the USA, but I deeply mistrust the american security and that does not give me any feelings of triumph...that makes me sad.


My very best regards to your great people from Berlin.

 

I forgot that in international politics there are no friends, only game players. Russia would be a better friend to Germany then USA. I hope Mrs. Merkel is an independent thinker.

 

Why???

 

Britain is the US's closest ally.

 

Not to try to push you off your high horse, but sounding all sad and hurt seems a bit hypocritical considering the spying that Germany does.

Oh, By the Way, Germany Spies on Us

And the type of spying that Germany does is, in my opinion, much worse. Germany engages in a lot of economic espionage (you're not the only one, France is guilty too- they are spying on you). To me, that threatens the foundation of international trade when a government uses methods and means intended for national security reasons and steals business information in order to help it's domestic companies against ours. When your government is doing that, doesn't that make you an untrustworthy trading partner?

Does the US spy on Germany (or did), yes, and except for a tiny select few nations in which we have special agreements with, we spy on friend or foe. But please, don't try to act all innocent as if your country is shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on in Ricks when your government has it's fingers in the pie up to your elbows. If you think that Russia is really a better international partner because, as we know, Russia would never spy on anyone, go ahead, but remember there is a big difference between being an ally of the United States and being a vassal state as part of the near abroad of Russia.

 

I hope Merkel does what is best for Germany and the E.U., but it seems her relationship to the U.S. is close...or maybe she's too fearful of going against the U.S. I know that five hundred top German executives told her not to put any more sanctions on Russia because they feared for their investments. It might have had an effect on her, because I read Obama didn't get what he wanted from Germany.

 

While I understand your concerns and sentiments with regards to spying, please understand that Germany (or Europe at large) is not doing the US any favor by being its ally in the current Russian conflict or any other matter. In this specific situation it's probably the other way around. Russian colonialism, expansionism and aggressiveness are a threat to Europe and Germany, peace in Europe, European and German vital interests as it's been throughout centuries than the US's, it's the US that's protecting Europe and carrying 90% of the Nato's burden and if someone in Europe thinks they don't need it, they should ask Ukrainians who did not believe they needed any protection from an external threat just a few short months ago.

 

Oh come on, and you don't see the E.U. as being vassal states of the U.S.? I mean other nations see the E.U. as being nothing but pawns of the U.S. Has the E.U. ever made any decision that went against our wishes? Even two months ago when Nuland was deciding on who she should put in as president of Ukraine, she even said and 'f*ck' the E.U. In other words they weren't even worth the bother of discussing it with them. Of course the Ukrainian people weren't worth it either, but that's beside the point.

 

What external threat? Oh you mean the coup. I forgot about that and how Russia wanted to get rid of the legitimate president and put some Nazi leader in his place. Why Medvedev and Lavrov were even standing with them and handing out cookies. ..and without even any shame. I mean for heavens sake, did you see the kind of people Russia was supporting? Why they were even setting the police on fire in Kiev. Those poor men:

[video=youtube;wEKviJYIlJ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKviJYIlJ4[/video]

 

Jeannette, you need to understand that this nonsense about ukrainian "nazis" is not fooling anyone, it's cheap absurd and baseless Kremlin lie and propaganda and other than a few Putinistas, no one takes it seriously. And this thread was started by a German guy who knows full well that Ukraine is not a threat to Germany or European stability, Russia is just as it has always been.


PS they also know that half of the world's neo-nazis are Russians, Ukrainian neo-nazis are not even on the radar.

 

The us cant support germany unless germany has the balls to stand up to russia...either germany opposes russias imperialistic agression and imposes trade sanctions or it can sit back protecting its russian trade connections by doing nothing...the usa can do nothing to help if germany does not lead...

 

Thought it was Canada.

Israelis think its Israel

Aussies think its Australians

See a pattern?

 

Russland ist kein viertes Reich. Russia is not a fourth Reich. There is nothing to worry about where Russia is concerned.

There is simply a lot of anti-Russian propaganda right now as the US continues to wage an economic war with that nation and its allies. The EU plays along with the US central bank scheme, so the EU is in no danger. Russia has no reason to touch any part of Europe. They may not even move any further into what is currently considered Ukrainian territory.

Get the US troublemakers and their paid & trained right-wing thugs out of Ukraine. The Ukrainians don't need to be used like this by a desperate, immoral USA.

- - - Updated - - -

Support? What support are we prepared to offer? Germany can't even get its gold back from us

 

Yeah, like East Germans would EVER side with the Soviets!!!!

 

I'm just wondering how many more innocents will be burned before you realize what's going on? See the problem with Nazis from Western Ukraine, is that the untermenschen is not just the Jews and Romas, it's the Russians as well...I mean just look at the denigrating pictures Litwin posts of Russians, aren't they reminiscent of the ones of the Jews in Nazi Germany? Twenty one million Russians were killed by the Nazis in the last war. Any soldier captured was sent to the gas chamber.

It's because of the Western Ukrainians beliefs of their own 'supremacism' that they were bludgeoning and choking the protesters who had escaped from the fire in Odessa. The pregnant woman who was killed was on the phone and they could hear the killers saying let's kill her anyway, because she should be home taking care of her children. Anyway here's an excerpt from the Huffington Post:


"...Yet after simply Googling the terms "Ukraine" and "Neo-Nazi," the official position of the United States government along with the stance taken by many in the American media both now seem quite dubious, if not downright ridiculous, especially considering that one would be hard-pressed to machinate the lineup that now dominates Ukraine's ministry posts.

For starters, Andriy Parubiy, the new secretary of Ukraine's security council, was a co-founder of the Neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine (SNPU), otherwise known as Svoboda. And his deputy, Dmytro Yarosh, is the leader of a party called the Right Sector which, according to historian Timothy Stanley, "flies the old flag of the Ukrainian Nazi collaborators at its rallies."

The highest-ranking right-wing extremist is Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych, also a member of Svoboda..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html

 

Ever heard of Ostalgie?

 

We are all sucked in and became slaves of technology and big corporations. White man brought capitalism to you and this is how USA has grown up. Who is to blame? Tis is greed.

 

[video=youtube;NKuDzXAgdf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKuDzXAgdf4[/video]

 

Germany is free and prosperous country, because Russians did not side with Soviets.

I visited Germany and Austria, when Berlin Wall was still intact.

 

They are not on radar of EU, NATO and USA, unfortunately, but they are at the core of the conflict. Their attitude and actions ignited separatism movement in Ukraine. Choosing Ukrainian Nationalism as a tool against Russia was a mistake and this cannot be corrected any more. All this hysteria about Russian aggression is blown up to hide aggression of EU and USA.

 

Bravo!

 

Taxcutter says:
FWIW, I agree with much of what you say.

1. The US spying is screwed up beyond belief. The NSA spies on allies and our own citizens, but apparently not on Russia.
2. NATO is dead. Pax Americana is over. Germany (like Japan) has to get over World War Two and see to its own defense.

 

Britain has been the most reliable ally with it's military support. Canada? Not really. Aussies? Yes, usually. Israel? They do provide reliable intel.

 

Dear Borat,

dispite all my respect, I do have to disagree with you.

Germany is doing a lot to help out of that russo-ukrainian conflict. Unlike the US, german politics still can reach Putin and russian politics. A nuclear strike on Russia, will cause the complete distruction of all Europe.

Germany unlike the US also is largely involved into business with Russia. It is easy to ask germans to cut all that if it's us to pay the price, BUT I would and could agree on that in general, just:

to do a complete cut at once might be the wrong strategy. To cut part by part and insist on a diplomatic solution by all conflict parties, might be more smart. Just also do not forget that Germany does depend by 27% on Russian Gas, Poland by nearly 80% +..estonia by 100%..so economical cut's here will punish mainly such countries you want to protect (and we also want to protect them).

By the way: the correct answer to that is NOT to buy american fracking gaz instead. It is building up more windfarms and solar padels ! Poland want's to replace russian gaz by exploiding charbon - that is crazy!

About spying: No, Germany does NOT spy to the US - that is feary tales, sorry. But may be we should. I rather would like to see something different:

Insteat to waste our energy on new anti-US spy systems (what Germany will defenetely do, be sure and technically we can unlike most others, be sure budy) we should stick together against russian dominance and work hand in hand as we did in Afghanistan, as it shall be.

About the "closest ally" (someone said Britain would be the closest ally to the US):

I doubt that the US like to chose it's ally just by language and WW2 traditions. Germany is longterms the far better choice. Germany is unlike Britain, an economical superpower, unlike Britain able to get out of the economical banking crisis. Germany has a car industry, a chemical industry, Germany is respected (unlike Britain) in the east of Europe (nothing against our british friends, but that is a fact, sorry).

Ok, the nowdays closest ally to Germany is France, but I think there is nothing wrong about having two closest allies as long as they can be trusted.

And spying on all of us is NOT creating such feeling. I mean what on earth does the US make spying on us? Spying on Merkel? I would expect that coming from Al Quaida or China, but the USA? NSA scandal destroys our combined strengh. And once again: I am REALLY indeed feeling pro american, I am from BERLIN!

About your critics who takes care in the NATO I do agree! I agree that we are NOT doing enough. Understand that after WW2 germans do need time to get balanced here and rather they are careful than extremily militaristic once more, but I do want to say:

Yes, I want nowdays german nukes to protect Germany from Putin, yes I do want a complete german anti-spy system, whatever it might cost us, yes I want a strong german army also to help countries as Poland to be protected (in agreement with the polish only!).

But I also think that an independent french-german leadership in the EU what does build up a strong EU might be the best way to make it clear:

Europe does want to become adult as much as it does irritate the US. Like in a family: once the kids get 16 - 18, they start to create their own views what does not mean at all that kids turn against its parents, the oposide! But they get adult. With all responsibilities and all rights.

I for example strictly refuse in Europe your extreme capitalistic system (I am sure that state health care is essential), I refuse weappons in public as death penality, but I respect your views as well as much as I instist to have it the european way here...I also think that french and german are more important as languages in Europe than english (what does not make me not liking your language, but I prefer french and german), I prefer our movies often to yours (not always) and and and...but all that does not make me beeing anti american. It makes me simply having my own identity.

A self confident strong partner in leadership would be the better choice to the US than a pudel what speaks english but what is second class and does more or less stay with its mind in so called "Battle of Britain" and "D-Day" memories disconnected to the new reality (once again, I politely ask the brits to forgive me and I am sure most of them can, because brits do have a wonderful quality: they are masters to respect different views and they can stand critics unlike most russians I know for example).

Once again: best regards from Berlin

 

Britain is unlike Germany not a real power anymore.

So you want the US to have a second choice "first ally"?

Britains economy is sadly based on bubbles, on the finance sector. That doesnt produce anything. Germans industry is based on hardware products, on real values.

That does make a hugde difference...and Germany does have a say in Europe. Britain has almost zero say here...sad (i do mean it that way), but fact.