Correct. Although it doesn't have to be two weeks. Could've been a couple of months. We're talking about sediment hard enough to hold its shape, but soft enough to cut through with water.
Do they disagree because it goes against science or the theory? Here's what I'm asking for: "Your theory is wrong because such and such can't be carved in that amount of time". "There's no evidence that amount of water ran through". "How we explain the river flowing uphill is..." "The barbed rivers are explained this way better". That's what I'm looking for. - - - Updated - - - The evidence show to around six thousand years old more or less.
So, god made photons flying at earth to look exactly as if they had been coming from objects millions of light years away? When I look up in the sky and see the Andromeda galaxy, that is just one more example of God's lie to man?
Goes against the theory? What theory are you talking about? And, no, scientists do not go against science. Scientists use scientific method to explore our universe. That's why they are called scientists. If they do something else, they aren't scientists.
It was clearly formed by water. 20,000 years ago North America was covered with so much ice that the area where Chicago is now was under a mile of ice. As that melted and ran off, it flooded the crap out of the whole continent.
Seriously - I want to know know how that worked. We can see the Andromeda galaxy without the need even for binoculars. It's about 2.5 million light years away. So, the photons arriving at earth are either 2.5 million years old. I want to know: Are you suggesting god created those photons in flight in such a manner as to fool us?
God made Adam look full grown didnt he? Plus in the Bible it says that God stretched out the heavens. So if we're to take the Bible literally and as fact the question is not "how did the light come from there to here?" The question should be "how did the stars get from here to there?" But this is another topic for another thread. Right now we're strictly talking about the Grand Canyon. Boy I'm noticing you guys love to bear off track. - - - Updated - - - The the theory of an old earth. Commonly associated with evolution, but you guys don't like me mixing terms. - - - Updated - - - I've only watched one "ice age" movie and it was a long time ago so I don't know what you're reffering to. - - - Updated - - - I'd agree to a point though I would disagree about the age. My point is that Grand Canyon is a washed out spillway. - - - Updated - - - See answer above.
You have to understand that during the Ice Age and then as the ice melted and receded the land that was compressed down by the Billions upon Billions of tons of ice sprang back upwards from it's state of compression. This is happening right now where the great lakes are and eventually the land under the great lakes will spring back up enough to cause the water of the great lakes to runoff or evaporate and disappear. Our Continental Tectonic Plates are constantly moving and the North American Plate is being SUBDUCTED under the Pacific Plate right off the coast of California and up in the waters off western Canada. Some day the entire North American Continent will be gone...subducted....and turned into molten rock. AboveAlpha
The water levels and force of the water and perhaps even direction has changed many times over the years....as all that Glacier Ice Melting must have had a massive effect in the Canyon. But it is old in the extreme. I like the fact you can find ancient Ocean Animal Fossils right in the canyons rock in areas where it was a massive inland sea. AboveAlpha
No. This is NOT off track. You are stating that stuff we see has been faked by god. THAT has to be figured out or there suddenly isn't anything like "evidence". And, there is no way to progress on any issue of science without evidence. If you believe evidence is regularly faked by some supernatural being, then what you are saying is that the universe can not be explored by humans anymore. So, back on track: We know how stars move. We live right next to the sun. There are stars as close as 5 light years from us, so we know about stars and how they move. Or, are you suggesting that even THAT is fake? How much of what we see with our eyes do you think is a lie made by God to look as if it is something that it is not? How do you make your decision on what to believe when you see something with your own two eyes?
BUT, he is accepting the idea that god faked that "evidence" - that he made and buried those fossils for us to find. He also stated that god faked starlight - photons coming to us to make it look like there are ancient stars, other galaxies, etc. that may or may not even exist.
To get an idea of just how much the continents have changed over the last 25 million years, check this out: Of course we see signs of masses of water shaping out land masses!
This is about Grand Canyon (hence the thread title) not the starlight issue. And I'm not saying God faked anything. God created a full grown man, full grown woman, full grown garden, full grown animals, and you get the point. So why wouldn't God make a full grown universe with trillions of stars? How else your going to fit all those stars in a 6,000 lightyears radius? How can this be any more clearer? We're talking about Grand Canyon, nothing else. Please stay on topic. Answered above. Get back to thread topic.
I've never accepted any idea like that. The fossils are from the flood. - - - Updated - - - Amazing that all land masses exhibit evidence of flooding or sedum insets which is caused by water isn't it?
Yeah and Monkey's might fly out of my Butt! LOL!!! AboveAlpha - - - Updated - - - This predates the canyon formation by hundreds of millions of years. AboveAlpha
Yup. In New Mexico the Carlsbad Caverns go hundreds of feet down (great tour by the way) and all those fabulous natural features are formed by water dripping through limestone. And limestone only forms one way, as ocean floor.
Uhhh.....the Universe has a diameter of 93 Billion Light Years!! Over a 46 Billion Light Year Radius. We can see using the Hubble and Chandra Telescopes back 13.4 Billion Light Years....so we are looking back in Time 13.4 Billion Years ago. The Universe has expanded since then and continues to expand via Dark Energy. You said...." fit all those stars in a 6,000 lightyears."....what the HELL are you talking about??? AboveAlpha
Yes. I was simply noting that when you stand on any part of earth, we would not believe the stories it could tell and the massive changes it could speak of, if only it could talk. And in a way, it does talk to geologists, and what tales it tells. Stories that are frankly hard to believe, but, the fossil record is a firm record. And the history it records is a wild one.
The Earth in the distant past was much smaller than it is now as a Mars sized Planet slammed into the Earth increasing the size and mass of the Earth as well as creating the moon. This superheated the Earth's internal dual core and this is why the Earth still has an active Electromagnetic Field and Mars does not as the interior molten metal core of Mars cooled and stopped spinning thus ending the protective Electromagnetic Field of Mars and that's why Mars lost all it's oceans. Solar Radiation such as UV Light and Cosmic Rays no longer were prevented from passing through the Martian electromagnetic field when it failed and these radiations caused a Chemical reaction that split H2O into Oxygen and Hydrogen Gases which were lost to space. The Oceans on Earth and Mars were created when Trillions of Ort Cloud Bodies...Comets...slammed into the planets for billions of years as Comets are basically dirty ice balls. AboveAlpha - - - Updated - - - We have a very advanced geologic record of Earth's development. We know what happened. AboveAlpha
I'm interested in discussing time, because time is a central feature of your Grand Canyon argument. Starlight is an argument about time. Without some common understanding about evidence (including evidence of time), there is no way to discuss this. It is a fundamental of scientific exploration.
Well Light or Photons travel at 186,282 miles per second which we state the speed of light as c. The speed of light is constant however Space-Time Warpeture does not change the speed of light....it changes DISTANCE. In school....they would teach kids the shortest distance between 2 points was a straight line...this is false. In reality the shortest distance between two points is ZERO DISTANCE or the same point One Dimensionally. Gravity is a One Dimensional Expression of Universal Space-Time thus neither Space nor Time exists in a One Dimensional State. Our Universe is at MINIMUM 10-D and could be 11-D or 26-D. But Matter and Energy and really Matter is completely comprised of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms of Energy....is THE SAME THING and if we can develop a UFT...Unified Field Theory....we can not only convert Energy directly into any Form or Matrix of Matter...but we can do the reverse. Being able to do this would enable us to generate enormous amounts of Energy which could be used to represent Mass which would allow us to Warp Space-Time to allow viable Interstellar Travel....thus FTL...or Faster than Light Travel as the Craft would not actually be moving but rather we would be changing the distance between one point and another. Thus Fold or Warp Space-time. We have proven such a thing exists with NASA's Gravity Probes A and Probe B. Plus NASA currently is running a Warp Drive program headed up by a Doctor White. AboveAlpha
Ok, but I think the real issue with Maccabee is what HE thinks is going on. I have NO idea what he's thinking. Right now, he's headed toward "last Thursdayism". After all, if there is an all-powerful God, he certainly could be showering us with deceptively positioned photons, all sorts of tiny particles with isotope proportions that make things look old, bones in the ground, etc. So, before responding to Maccabee on any other point, I'm really curious how he decides what is evidence and what is just that wild and crazy god of his, lying to us again.
Although the existence of a GOD or GODS cannot be proven either way......PROBABILITY dictates that any GOD or GODS existing as advertised in any existing Human Religious Text to be LOW IN THE EXTREME. How low? 1 chance in 10^178th......that's 1 chance in a 10 with 178 zero's after it. A STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY exists at a higher probability of 1 chance in 10^150th. As the DEFINITION of what a GOD or GODS is or are....Probability calculations change as well. When a GOD is defined as NATURE as in a Multiverse with all Infinite in number Universes within it.....Probability SOARS. So it is not so much a question of if something is POSSIBLE.....but more a question if something is PROBABLE. AboveAlpha
