History of evolutionary thought

It's interesting - the modern debate between creationism and evolution is basically a repeat of history, an ancient debate still going on under modern terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
The proposal that one type of animal could descend from an animal of another type goes back to some of the first pre-Socratic Greek philosophers, such as Anaximander and Empedocles. In contrast to these materialistic views, Aristotle understood all natural things, not only living things, as being imperfect actualisations of different fixed natural possibilities, known as "forms", "ideas", or (in Latin translations) "species". This was part of his teleological understanding of nature in which all things have an intended role to play in a divine cosmic order.

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We see here that Aristotle argued for archetypes, for existing species being "imperfect actualisations of different fixed natural possibilities," which is called teleology. Teleology is the creationism of its day, and here we see that evolution was apparent to people even so long ago as pre-Scoratic Greece. Then as now, evolution was a fact-based argument while creationism was a "divine" model, a religiously inspired idea, a theistic concept.

Were it not for religion, teleology would surely be long-dead by now, tossed into the same bin with flat-earthism and geocentrism, both of which were also ideas proposed and defended by theists!

 

Nothing is "new."

 

Ideas and discoveries can be, and many are.

 

Naw...they're just re-cycled old news.

 

People have been proving evolution in the breeding of livestock, working animals, birds, and plants for some 10 thousand years.

Don't understand why this even needs discussing outside of the church.

 

Amazing. Here you are wanting to argue against one of the tenets of Christianity (which some on this forum have labeled as a myth) while using another myth. Socrates has never been proven to have ever existed. Then you go on to claim that evolution "was apparent to people even so long ago as pre-Scoratic Greece", yet you offer no proof of claim. Is that more of your mythology?

 

Erm, the proof is in the surviving dialogues concerning evolution and teleology.

Also, there are many Christians who accept evolution. The stupid varieties of Christianity tend to be American more than anything else; Europe and Oceania are faring better in this respect.

 

Perhaps there are many who say they are Christian and at the same time claim to accept evolution... who cares?

Proof? What proof? You have presented no PROOF of anything.

 

Even the Bible says that evolution is real.

 

Are you sure it's religion or human pride?

 

In what Book, Chapter and verse?

 

What kind of PROOF do you want? PROOF of evolution (though really we're talking about supporting evidence, a distinction that, like the distinction between the common and scientific definitions of 'theory,' seems to challenge you) typically involves knowing a thing or two about the related fields of study, e.g. genetics and morphology. Evolution is all around you, but you do have to take your blinders off and quit being a wilfully ignorant religious dolt to comprehend it.

Always I marvel (more than I ought to, I'm sure) at the human capacity for self-delusion.

 

Self delusion such as your own. As for the proof. Provide PROOF of any of your claims that have already been posted and unchanged on this forum.

 

an idiocy, because nothing can evolve what's not created. A debate "stones vs waters" would make more sense than the neverending debate "creation vs evolution".

http://youtu.be/w8EXDtoGfrs

 

Okay - if you like to speak about: Tell me something about why "mother nature" needed 13.7 billion years to evolve something what believes in god if god doesn't exist. Is "mother nature" an idiot or knows "mother nature" nothing about her own laws like for example the natural law "survival of the fittest"? Why are human beings fitting in god although god is not existing? Why are some of this beings are calling themselve "children of god" [Why they are able to do so?] and because they are generous also calling others and everyone "children of god" and are creating laws like for example "the human rights" onyl becaeu oterhs aer able to break the "right to live" by killing babies in their mothers womb? WhatÖ sthe progress in the evoltion of atheists and is this progress able to become a tradition until the last human being dies?

Think about - and god bless you if you really try to find serios answers.

http://youtu.be/61PL3KJFPss

 

People also write stories about sparkly vampires. Are you contending that they must exist just because we can conceive of them?

 

Everything evolves.. even as monotheism itself evolved. Why is that threatening to faith?

 

Who said it is threatening to faith? I personally laugh at all those who promote the so-called theory of Evolution. Are you out on another fishing expedition?

 

So you are a creationist.. That's fine, but there aren't alot of people who have a disconnect between science and spiritual matters... Some don't need signs and miracles to believe in God.

Even the Jewish sages like Rambam taught that when science conflicts with scripture, science wins.

There is no record of man co-existing with dinosaurs.

 

Who said anything about signs and miracles or about a disconnect between science and God? Are you still strung out on some sort of hallucinogen?

What does dinosaurs have to do with this discussion? I know now... you have been sniffing glue and immensely valuable brain cells have been destroyed... you really need to lay off that stuff.

 

Wisdom 19:18-19 (CEB) = [SUP]18 [/SUP]If we are careful to observe events, we can see just how the elements of the universe are transformed. It’s the same transformation that happens when someone changes the sounds that a harp makes by changing the key while continuing to play the same melody. [SUP]19 [/SUP]In this way, land animals were changed into underwater creatures, while animals that swam in the waters now moved onto the land.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Wisdom+19&version=CEB

 

I had to look this up..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Wisdom

The Book of Wisdom, often referred to simply as Wisdom or the Book of the Wisdom of Solomon, is one of the deuterocanonical books of the Bible. It is one of the seven Sapiential or wisdom books of the Septuagint Old Testament, which includes Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon (Song of Songs), and Sirach.

According to St. Melito in the 2nd century AD, it was considered canonical by Jews and Christians,[1] and a Hebrew translation of the Wisdom of Solomon is mentioned by Naḥmanides in the preface to his commentary on the Pentateuch.

The Book of Wisdom should not be confused with the Wisdom of Sirach, a work from the 2nd century BC, originally written in Hebrew.

This is the first I've even heard of that book. It looks like the popular bibles have all managed to leave what may be the one good book of the bible out of the bible...

 

My favorite books are Ecclesiastes, Sirach, Wisdom, and Proverbs. They are mostly secular in nature and contain good advice for daily living. The last chapters of Sirach (chapters 44-50) contains a very good recap of the primary characters in the Old Testament. Sirach also contains passages that explain why the Jesus character is a fraud.

Sirach 36:31 (CEB) = Who will trust a well-equipped robber
who travels from city to city?
Likewise, who will trust a man
who does not have a nest
and who lodges wherever night falls?

Matthew 8:20 (CEV) = Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens, and birds have nests. But the Son of Man doesn’t have a place to call his own.”

Jesus was always bunking with his rich friends as he traveled across the land from town to town.

 

Sirach is yet another common sense book that just couldn't make the canon, looks like. That's one indication that it must have some redeeming quality.

 

So why needed the universe to write a story about vampires 13.7 billion years - and why is the universe doing such things?

http://youtu.be/gxFFYc_NAd4