Homeowner shot a 14-year-old during burglary attempt. The 5 other teens with him were charged with m

I'm from Milwaukee, and as a kid, we were always told that "In the future, between Chicago and Green Bay will be one big mega city.."
Would make Packers v. Bears interesting!

And it's only one train switch to get from Chicago to Green bay.
Metra to Kenosha, then Amtrak up.

 

The other kids didn't kill their accomplice. It's judicial overkill and a draconian practice. I will start vetting candidates by asking if they would repeal such policies, if elected.

 

Harsh penalties are meant to discourage crime. If these punks hadn't been out committing crime, no one would have died. They got their buddy killed, period. The law is meant to save lives. Unfortunately, some people are just too stupid to be discouraged. And if left unchecked, a roving gang of criminals WILL eventually kill someone.



Wasn't little Alex also just 14?

 

Not sure about this. The smart ones let the dumb ones go first and take the bullets. No actual evidence of this, but in theory that should raise the average IQ level.

 

I am sure you are right.

But you see, over the last fifty years, we've seen the 'extreme' become the 'slightly extreme, but tolerated', and then just "well, it's not what I believe, but it's understandable", and then "You can understand how they feel ..." ... to silence. Obama's Justice Department finds that a thug who tried to snatch a policeman's gun was not unlawfully shot. Said thug's spirit will be invoked at the Democratic convention next month. Times are changing.

Who would have believed, fifty years ago, when reading about the Stonewall riot, just demanding to be treated like human beings, or even twenty years ago, when Hillary and Obama opposed gay marriage, that someday Christian bakers would be threatened with bankruptcy for declining to bake a cake celebrating gay marriage?

I don't think it's conscious on your side's part, but this sort of thing used to be called "salami tactics".

And ... if we were starting over, so to speak, or were in the America of 1960 ... we could have a calm conversation about high-capacity magazines for high-powered semi-automatic rifles which are, contra some of the opinion here, weapons of war, not of hunting or even of home defense.

After all, we effectively ban -- or used to -- 'destructive devices' like hand grenades and machine guns and mortars. I have met very few conservatives who are keen to unban them, although I did run into one fellow -- probably a Libertarian, and although they sort of look like us, they're not -- who wanted to be allowed to own nuclear weapons.

On the other hand, in emotional debates like this, to invert TS Elliot, the passionate intensity brings out the worst in all lof us, and the center cannot hold. But I think the debate is a reflection of the growing reality.

But, call it paronoia if you wish, I believe that for a lot of us, maybe not yet at the conscious level, there is, shall we say, no more Reaganite confidence in the future of our country, and in particular its ability to maintain the social order and to be politically neutral in the administration of the law.

Just a little voice. (I'm much more extreme -- or logical -- than my fellow conservatives about the direction we're heading in, or rather our ability to reverse or even halt it, and what we must do in light of the grim reality, but that's another story.)

They just feel safer, owning something more than a .38 or .22 or 12-gauge ... just in case, just in the remote case. Keep in mind that some of these people on my side are vets, or in the Reserve, and an AR15, civilian cousin to the M4 and M16, isn't as scary as it may look to a middle class college kid who has never even touched a gun. (I'm not playing 'manly con vs effete lib' here, which is bullshit anyway, remember Pat Tillman). These guys were trained to use far more destructive devices than a little semi-auto rifle, and they don't see why they should be prevented from owning something they're already familiar with, being responsible people. Go on any dedicated firearms forum and you'll meet people like this.)

I have floated, here and elsewhere, the idea of moving to a "Swiss-style" approach -- something like an expansion of the little-known 'State Guard' you find in some states, with proper 'weapons of war' like the AR15 held nearby in neighborhood or town mini-armories but securely. But realistically speaking, that's probably not going to fly.

So it's a choice of evils and we choose a different one than you do.

 

Yeah, but he loved classical music. Don't think you'll find many Mozart lovers in the 'hood.

 

You are right.

I don't like to put it this way, but anyone who supports charging the other thugs with murder, please consider this example, and see if you can be consistent, in your heart of hearts.

Even nice, white, 'ordinary' teenagers can get into trouble. My closest childhood friend did so, ended up in front of a judge who gave him the choice of five years in state prison or five years in the Corps. He chose becoming a jarhead rather than being punked out and it changed his life.

Now he was stealing tires or something. Let's image three or four white Christian teenagers from good homes decide to 'scrump' (steal) some apples -- windfalls, say, from the backyard of a grumpy old man
.
The homeowner hears noise in his backyard, sees some shadowy figures moving cautiously around, maybe there's been a horrific home invasion in his neighborhood recently ... and he gets his gun ... and fires. One of the teens drops dead.

Think it doesn't happen? Ask Yoshihiro Hattori whether something like this is possible.

Should the other teens be charged with murder?

 

The other kids got their accomplice killed. Felony homicide is a crime in pretty much the entire US.

Why do you think holding people responsible for the effects of their actions is a bad thing? Seems to me the effect is the crime, not the intent.

 

Yup. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Charge them, lock them up, take them to trial, convict them, imprison them.

 

As a Texan, I have to observe that The Duke was a Hollywood cowboy. I suspect things in the real West were a bit different.

An anecdote about, maybe from, that time:

A Western town had a resident bully -- but he was good with a gun, had killed several men in traditional duels, so he got away with being a bully, intimidating everyone in all the little ways that such people have of humilating others. You tried not to catch his eye in the local saloon, or you might end up having to buy him a drink.

One day a mild-mannered dentist moved to down, from the distant East Coast.
After a few days, he went to the local saloon, got a drink, sat down ... and the bully came over ... picked the dentist's whiskey up and drank it.
Then he looked coldly at the dentist and said, "If you don't like it, you can meet me tomorrow at noon on the main street."

The dentist calmly got up and said, "Certainly, sir. Tomorrow at noon. Main street. Where will you be, so I can recognize you?"
The bully was a bit taken aback, but quickly replied, "I'll be right in front of the hotel... but I know you'll be fifty miles away, little man."

The next day, almost the whole town had gathered to watch the coming execution -- except they knew the bully was right.
The bully swaggered out of the saloon and down to the hotel.
The clock began to strike noon .... as the last chime died away, the bully slowly turned around, satisfying himself that there was
no dentist to be seen.
Then, when his back was to the hotel, there was movement in one of its open windows.
A man leaned out, pointing a double-barrelled shotgun down at the street.
BOOM!!! BOOM!!
Bully fell forward, riddled with buckshot, twitched once or twice ... and stopped moving forever.

That night in the saloon, the delighted townspeople bought the dentist drink after drink.
Finally one of them said to him, "Mister ... now don't take this the wrong way ... I know you're from back East, and
maybe they do things differently back there ... but out here, when a man challenges you to a duel... well .. it's got to
be a fair fight. You got to face him. Then both of you draw ... that's the way we do it."

The dentist looked puzzled, frowned, and said
"Well ... he's dead ... and I'm alive ... and that's the way I wanted it."

Another deplorable, I suppose.

 

It was murder. How many years do you think those kids should serve?

 

It's a judge who imposes the sentences. At least 20 years imo.

But judges are in general terribly too lenient.

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I see nothing wrong with the situation.

 

00buck shot will definitely do that and there will be more of them spread across a wider area.

Cops use pistols, not shotguns loaded with blanks and birdshot.

1) It summons cops who are normally 5-10 minutes away. That's plenty of time to get in and out with jewelry, money, a kidnapping and/or rape victim, kill several people, most electronics, and other valuables. So no, it doesn't scare someone bent on a ****ing home invasion or burglary (ie the breaking and entering of a building with intent to commit a felony or felonies inside) of a habitation.

2) shot guns lack precision in many cases. I'd prefer not to shoot a hostage, or someone near. 1 projectile down range where I'm aiming is more than enough to keep track of at once without trying to game out what the pattern of shot will look like at that distance. Have you ever fired a gun? Any gun? What is your experience with firearms and their use?

 

I think you're winding me up.
These are kids from the Methodist church in Poobah Iowa who decided to scrump some apples.

 

The home owner was in fear of his life. His response was totally proportionate. I be the kid doesn't have the guts to do that again (pun intended).

 

Having trouble reading or avoiding facts in the case?

"At least one of the male subjects advanced toward him with an unknown object in his hand," officials said in a release. "The homeowner feared for his life and discharged a firearm."

At least one of the rounds from the small caliber revolver struck the 14-year-old, and a knife was later found at the scene of the shooting. The homeowner called 911 to report the attempted burglary and shots fired, but by the time police arrived all of the suspects had fled.

So sad, too bad. Maybe the kids folks should have taught him that burglary can be a deadly game.

 

Do you even know what THUG LIFE means? It's an acronym that stands for The Hate You Give Little Children bleeps Everyone.

This kid might not know the acronym and we have no idea if he came there on a whim, a dare or for some other foolish reason. If you put him in jail with murderers, I'd expect him to become a worse criminal, if he even survived.

Many adults don't even know that you can be charged with murder, when someone else pulls the trigger, if you're committing certain other crimes. This matter needs to be part of criminal justice reform.

 

That'll teach em, won't do that s**t again.

 

Hmmm.... not sure you're right there. This is pretty funny:



Oops ... am I being a sexist here?

Acually, to be fair, go on YouTube and search for 'women and shotguns'. It seems a lot of women are tooling up.

 

Per the federal government, Kenosha is a suburb of Chicago (being part of the Chicago metro area).

 

No, as it's not a felony to steal apples (unless they were getting a pickup truck full) and trespass. It is a felony to steal a car.

 

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The whole group knew what they were doing was wrong. It got someone killed. That's murder in my book. At least reckless homicide.

 

Mozart is overrated? Motown, r and b and hip hop are also global sensations.

 

There is a difference between someone who would callously shoot someone and kids caught up in a technical definition of murder. I would have charged them with Grand Theft only. That and the death of their friend is already a stiff punishment and wake up call.