How can the Vatican justify its wealth?

100% agree on what did and didn’t happen. I’m just torn between the idealism of what the Catholic Church and what we think they should have done, and the fact they were sitting in the middle of two fascist states looking for a way to survive a mad man who slaughtered minorities of all persuasion and did much the same to anyone who overtly wasn’t on their side. I could easily see a campaign of lies by Hitler convincing his herd of minions that the Vatican was now occupied by Jews……then follow up with something like Stuka dive bombing of the Vatican.
Hitler had as many as 18 assassination attempts, all foiled. Everyone under his foot lived in absolute fear. The Pope is a man….no different then the rest of us.

 

I would agree with the above if they didn't claim to be following a great moral power, if the Pope didn't claim to be infallible, etc.

Holier-than-thou carries a higher standard I would say.

 

What Christ meant by the Kingdom of God is within us, is that the only way one can enter God's non physical existence or dimension is through their minds and hearts.

As for evidence of God, it's everywhere. You can't see it because you don't want to.

 

Yup…..but whether it be a mad man of an institution of not quite so mad men, each feeds on the other. If you’re raised with fairy tails and never wake up to the truth, IMO, you’re increasingly susceptible to other charlatans. The infallibility of the pope is an illusion that controls the masses. It works until a real infallible mad man steps in and requires his ego be fed and his declarations followed. I wouldn’t want to live under a crazy man with a powerful war machine…..though we just did.

 

I can’t see it because I can’t see it. Why is that so hard to understand ?
You claim he’s everywhere. I could claim he’s nowhere and neither of us have evidence. That’s what agnosticism is all about.

Btw, if he’s everywhere, and you believe it, it’s you who will have to say where.

 

Exactly. By gifts you mean salary. The church wants the only beneficiary's to be the church . After all, maintenance of wealth is essential to maintaining power and control of the priests. Excepting being already married priests from smother church. Wonder why priest drop out.

 

why would he?

the jews declares war against germany, they were at war ffs, america did the same thing with the japs in america when japan declared war on the us ffs

A diary kept by President John F Kennedy as a young man travelling in Europe, revealing his fascination with Adolf Hitler, is up for auction.

Kennedy, then 28, predicted "Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived".

Of course that makes the rothschild propaganda mill very unhappy.

They tell you people what to believe which is why no one can think for themselves any more and come up with correct answers.

Its not antijapanism when we did it to the japs when the japs declared war on us and its not antisemitism if the jews declare war on you or hitler FFS.

People today are brainwashed!

Now if we want to look at the jews on the other hand:

“Millions of Jews living in America, England, France, North and South Africa and Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end.” The Jewish newspaper, Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September, 13, 1939.

Pot Kettle!

 

Significant doesn’t mean admire. Trump will be remembered as a significant president because of his treasonous acts…same thing

 

Sure does! Your first clue is "emerge from the hatred", this means wont be hated anymore!
Biden pales him!

Trump cant compare to Bidens stupidity on any level, Biden will go down in history reflecting the times and the people that elected hiim, as the stupidest president ever to be put into office.

 

Do you deny that the Catholic Church has a net worth of at least 30 billion dollars? So why is that money, or at least a good part of that money not given to help the poor?

Jesus said, "go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." So why isn't the Catholic Church doing what Jesus said to do?

 

Art is a possession and should be sold to help poor people in accordance with the words of Jesus.

 

The natural world is not evidence of the supernatural. What is the empirical evidence for a supernatural God?

 

It is not a business. It is a criminal enterprise.

The Imperial Roman Catholic Church is the oldest existing terrorist organization and state sponsor of terrorism and has murdered more than 1 Billion people since it's inception in 533 CE.

That wasn't a denial.

That will never erase the stain of the 1 Billion people they've murdered.

That's because the Poop was too busy investing the 1.5 Billion Italian Lira fascist Mussolini gave him.

Correct.

Poops and priests married for centuries before one of the Poops decreed it was illegal.

What kind of god is so stupid as to not know priests are pedophiles?

 

I guess I'll weigh in on this...

Numerous items to address here:

1) The Vatican/Roman Catholic Church doesn't have to justify its wealth and even if it did the only people it would have to justify it to are Catholics.

2) There is far more to the RCC and every other major religious organization than serving the poor. First and foremost, every church's first order of business is to serve its congregation's spiritual needs, then it has institutions to run, people to pay, property and expenses to pay for, etc., in addition to providing assistance to the poor.

3) While there is proof aplenty to refute the claim that "the catholic religion has been and always will be nothing more than a business to generate wealth and power", it is true that the RCC has acquired a great deal of wealth and power over the centuries, and while corrupt men within the Church have misappropriated and misused both, that wealth and power has gone to good use over the past 2000 years, too. The two most obvious historical examples are 1) the role the wealth and power of the Church played in preventing the West from being overrun by the Umayyad and Ottoman waves of conquest in the 8th, 16th and 17th Centuries and 2) the role its wealth, power and Polish pope played in bringing down the Communist Bloc in the late 20th Century. Of course, that doesn't include the many other good things the Church and its churchmen have done over the years, such as the development of the inherent natural rights doctrines that later became enshrined in my nation's Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights.

The RCC is like virtually every other institution on this planet - it is a reflection of the good, the bad and the imperfection of the human beings who run it.

 

No no valid reason for a decree you make exceptions for either. Ex Episcopal priest turned Catholic can be married.

 

No it doesn't. And why doesn't it surprise me that you come out with this anti-semitic rant? The "Jews declared war on Germany"? What's next? Are you going to tell us "The Blacks declared war on the police"? Demographics don't declare war.

Also, you really need to work on your English writing, given how you talked down to me regarding my own. Your grammar is horrendous and you are barely comprehensible.

Trump was a narcissist with the mind of a 5 year old bully. Biden is a senile old man. And they also had George Dubya Bush. USA sure can pick em.

 

The idea of Jews. Declaring war was developed by anti Semitic propaganda perpetrated by Nazi party.

A couple of corrections imo. . Trump “ still is, not was” a 5 year old bully.
Secondly, being a “an old man” isn’t a bad thing , It’s about time the elderly had proper representation. Biden always stuttered . His speech pattern isn’t much different then in middle age as it is now. . Really, it’s proper to bring that up. Now Reagan, that’s a deferent story.

 

And Anti-Semitism was born in and fostered by institutions such as the Catholic Church. If the Catholic Church had not been spreading anti-Semitism in Germany for so long, it is unlikely Hitler could have used Jews as his most convenient target.

 

Raised Catholic so I have seen the good and bad

What were the Catholics supposed to do , put the condom on?

I grew up in Westbrook Maine a mill town full of French Canadians and The dreaded Irish , we had 5 churches , now there is one

me either

super churches are no Christian , God allows you to seek out the true chuech

Researchers on either side need to look at all evidence

got a link?

Satan is the air he is also everywhere





I went to catholic schools Until grade 6 , I was never molested and I have great memories about Father Lee . I do agree that they have too much. Just like those super churches . I tithe all, the time , I have been known to help people in line to buy groceries , to me that is tithing .

 

No doubt….

But that’s not just a Catholic but a Christian prerogative.

We still have to correct Christians who claimed the Jews killed Christ. Not only was Christ a Jew, but most of his followers were too. Generally speaking,

95% of the Nazi party in 1939, still identified themselves as Catholics or Protestant . This was while the Holocaust was in full swing…nearly all perpetrating it identified themselves as Christians.

 

That is much much much better than tithing in the way the RCC demands it. I do similar on my trips to the Philippines, bringing food and money to the people living in the landfill.

If more people stopped gawking at sickening displays of wealth in places like cathedrals, and ventured to meet those who have nothing, and saw how good and loving so many of those people are, I think the world would change for the better very quickly.

I find it ironic how Jesus was supposedly all about the above, but the Catholic Church is very much the opposite. I think the sermon on the mount version of Jesus would be absolutely disgusted.

 

The religion was used by Hitler as a powerful tool towards his ends. "Gott Mitt Uns" (God with us) inscribed on the belt buckles wasn't a reminder to wear mittens.

It remains open to question whether or not Christianity and Catholicism created Hitler, or if it was just a convenient vehicle for him. I personally think Hitler got his ideas and rose to power more due to the overly repressive treaty that ended WW1, than the religious brainwashing of the time.

But either way, the Catholic church bares some responsibility.

 

The teachings in all religions are nebulously by design. They can be a reason for any religion to keep from paying taxes to fostering genocide. The Catholic Church bears the same responsibility as those who stand by and do nothing or speak against the poor as a disease and not a condition.

 

First they have to acknowledge and promote the use of birth control. Just being at odds with sexuality of any kind unless between two consenting adults is hypocritical. Like that of the protected clergy engaged in pedophilia, it’s harder to be of much good unless you clean up your act.

 

I know many Catholics do what they want with Birth Control, but it's Africa , Please not all Priests were involved , the ones who they hid should be exposed along with those who help