How did you become a theist?

After a couple of months I again find myself interested in exploring religious beliefs. Now I'm not here to attack anybody for being a theist or atheist. This is not the point of this topic; I just wish to follow the process of becoming a theists or atheists. I unfortunately don't happen to know people close to me who would believe deeply in the content of the bible so I could have this conversation with them. Hence I thought that this forums might make things more clear.

I think that the roots to religious beliefs may be found in the upbringing of people. So these (probably) childhood experiences made you a believer in God, Allah, Zeus or whatever else.

I thought maybe some people would be friendly enough to share their childhood experiences with religion with me, and so create an understanding of your beliefs.

I think as it is a request, it it is only fair that I start with my personal story:

I was raised Roman-Catholic by my parents who're both Roman-Catholics themselves. We would go to church on Sundays and pray before meals when ever we had my dad's mom visiting us, who was (she died 2012) deeply religious. I never payed attention to what the priest was preaching in church. I didn't like going as I personally preferred playing sports as a kid on Sundays than going to church. Church was a rather boring experience for me and I started visiting the Austrian version of "Sunday-school" since I was 6 years old. In Austria kids had to attend (unless their parents didn't want them to) 2 hours of school classes every week revolving about religion. Obviously as a catholic nation, we didn't really learn about Jewish or other faiths in school but we had to learn a lot about the bible. It was like any other class for me and I visited that till I was 14 - so 8 years, 2 hours every week. My parents requested that I'd visit that program till confirmation, after which I finally was allowed to sign out of religion class. Many of my classmates did continue to visit that class till the end of high school.
After confirmation I tried to avoid going to church as much as I could, as my parents no longer forced me too. Yet I did visit the church still once a month. As a teenager I did see more interesting things happening on TV or on the basket-ball court than in church. I think I was around 17 or 18 years old when I for the first time actually payed attention to the stories the preacher would tell in church. And although I had read the bible I didn't understand why the preachers stories made no sense. I started to wonder why we'd celebrate Jesus's death on a different day every year, why people would believe in the virgin birth, etc. Yet I didn't consider myself as an atheist at that point. In college I'd pray for good exam outcome and help, keep promises to god, etc. It made less and less sense with time as none of the stories in the bible made sense to me after reading the book for a second time. Also me studying the field of history made the bible look more as an practical instrument rather than a book of knowledge.
The more I started reading up on the facts, looking at evidence and looking at practical reasons for church-law the more I lost the little token of faith I might have had left in me. I started calling myself an atheist a few years ago, and signed out of the church this year, as a last and final step admitting even to my elderly parents that I don't share their beliefs. This was actually a really big step for me, as I knew for quite a while what I believed in, but admitting it to people who mean so much to me and whom it might hurt if I told them the truth. I just didn't see any benefit of worrying my grandmother with this, and I never told her.

Please share your stories and don't ridicule

 

Are you asking how others became "a theist," or "atheist." Your thread title says one thing, and your story is the other.

 

I think we are all born atheist... I sure was as proven by my absolutely dreading going to Church on Sunday mornings. How did I become a theist? Well I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, contemplating suicide, so I called out to God asking for His intervention... my prayer was something like this "God, I do not even know if you exist, but if you do I am lost in life and at the end off my rope... please help me and show me what to do and I will forever serve you". Well long story short my life turned for the better on a dime and I became a believer.

I have talked to many believers and found that no two stories are the same. The path for each of us is different but the destination is always the same... just my opinion though.

 

I thought it was unfair practically demanding theists to share their stories without going first. I just happen to be an Atheist and my story therefore is different. I am not as interested in Atheist stories I have to admit, as they are easier for me to understand usually. The theists have a rather different approach with is more mysterious to me, and which I would like to understand.

Yeah I would imagine that there are as many paths as there are people. That's why I asked for people's stories. Was this particular incident of your's in your childhood or did that occur late in life? I always thought one has to be educated into being religious, as I agree with the premise that we're all born atheists. Did you have a similar "program" in Christian education in your childhood as I had?

 

It was the 80's I was a young man and fell heavy into drugs. Tried a few times to quit to no avail but when I called upon God for help promising that I would forever serve Him, I was as far as I can tell instantly healed... basically I went to bed a drunk & drug addict and woke the next morning seeing everything through new eyes... my version of being reborn. Went to rehab and never went through withdrawal, no cravings that had in every other attempt plagued me... for lack of better words I was a free man and I have never looked back.

IMO our relationship with God is not complex and as such no education is necessary. I pray, I listen, then I do my best to go into the world and be of service to others. I come from a Christian background but never was able to accept the tenets of Christianity. I am a Deist, which basically means that I believe in God but reject religious dogma. I differ from most Deists as I believe that God to a very limited degree interact with His creation.

Ya, I mean I come from a large Christian family, so it started with Sunday school then Mass... etc. But I never did fit in although I genuinely tried. I saw that others were feeling something, but whatever it was they were feeling eluded me. So basically my Christian education failed. I found God on my own and not through Christ. IMO God is not found in a book or a building, and all who earnestly seek to know Him can.

But this is all just my opinion and I have no desire to try to make others believe as I do. As a Deist I think all theists come to find God in a way that is unique to them.

 

I agree with this, but the religion you believe in is also social and environmental.

 

thanks for the elaboration.

This path does make sense to me and I appreciate you sharing your story with me (or us rather).

I would still have so many questions though, which would go off topic. Also I don't want you to feel like I'm needling you.

Let's see if we can get more stories in here

 

There is a study that shows that atheists are as distrusted as rapists. What hogwash. <<< this is the best 'acknowledging irony' emoticon that is available

 

Well, not sure whether I want to risk casting my pearls before swine in this forum, but seeing that you asked nicely:

I grew up in a liberal Protestant Christian family (for the most part: My mother&#8217;s parents weren&#8217;t religious, but they also weren&#8217;t hardcore Marxist enough to mind that she got involved with the Church. My father&#8217;s parents were old-school conservative Protestants who sometimes found it hard to cope with my parents more liberal religious views and vice versa).

So I suppose I must have heard of what for want of a better word is called God before I had my first religious experience of Him being real and wonderful when I was about 4 years old. It&#8217;s an amazing experience hard to describe to anybody who hasn&#8217;t had it. In my case it didn&#8217;t have any discernible outward occasion at the time. It still rarely has &#8211; but gazing at the stars, listening to good music, beholding the face of the beloved etc. certainly seem to help to induce this intense feeling of God&#8217;s presence.

With my family background it was to be expected that I followed up on that experience within the framework of Christianity. I enjoyed going to Sunday school and was interested in theology from a young age. Within Christianity I found the lens through which I can halfway understand my tiny glimpse of transcendence. I know other people have other lenses, but this is the one most suitable for my eyes so to speak.

Of course I struggled with Christianity throughout various stages in my life (which normal rebellious and opinionated teenager wouldn&#8217;t?). Luckily not only my family but also the parish I grew up in was rather versatile/diverse. Thus I soon learned that there are all kinds of believers with differing theological stances and that rejecting a particular theological stance (and I still reject some of them with passion) doesn&#8217;t mean one has to reject God.

 

The pedo scandal was the last straw for me.

 

That was a wonderful life story in finding connection with the Divine. Thank you for sharing it.
Finding the Divine is something very personal and needs no massive church to do. Just a willingness to reach out and search within. In fact the whole social edifice and dogma of mass religion can make it harder. Blessed Be.

 

First I'd like to thank you for your input.

I'm curious about a few things:
As you grew up always enjoying theology, did you have influences from some other sources contradicting the informations you may have heard in Sunday school? And if so, how did you handle that type of information in your childhood - and maybe how do you deal with that type of information today? I would imagine that even if you have firm beliefs in the positive moralities of the bible, people might challenge your beliefs because of some of the bible's content you personally might disagree with.

 

We all grow up with certain predilections. Every child is a little bit different.
For instance, there is an idea in Judaism that says that someone who enjoys drawing blood could grow up to be a murderer or - could grow up to be a mohel (he who performs ritual circumcision) or a shochet (a ritual slaughterer of kosher animals), both which are highly respected and necessary positions in the Jewish world.

A child may love sports or reading or bullying or building things or whining or whatever.
So, for awhile, children travel in these different directions.

As a child, I was interested in "Why?" Why are we here? Why does G-d do things? Why is that person that way and another person another way?
I was a student of Bill Cosby's "Why is There Air?" (That's a joke. However, part of my late childhood was listening to Bill Cosby's records and memorizing many of his routines. He is very funny and has a very deep understanding of the peculiar ways in which our minds work).
Part of my childhood was reading a great deal. Children's fiction; science fiction; historical fiction; and then on to other riveting fiction that my 11 or 12 year old mind could grasp - like Shakespeare or American folk tales.
Much of this kind of writing is speculative on the questions of "Why?" It fed my mind and soul.
I believe that my first exposure to Hinduism was Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light." I have since read most of the Hindu scriptures and other related fields such as Buddhism and Yoga (all in their English translations). But Zelazny started that process by inventing an imaginative world based on on Hinduism...

I was raised a well churched Episcopalian Christian. My great grandfather, after whom my uncle was named, was an Episcopalian minister in Baltimore. His wife was a cousin to the late Queen Mother of England which is, of course, the head of the Anglican Church.
My late uncle, after whom I was named, was an Episcopalian bishop of Alabama and the Gulf Coast. My brother, at age fifty, changed his career, went to seminary, and became an Episcopalian minister. My parents were always on the vestry or board of the church. My late father was a trustee for the local Episcopalian high school. My mother served in every position - warden, and whatever else they were called.
My siblings and I were all in the choir; were acolytes (altar boys); went to Sunday school regularly; always went to church; were involved in the church youth group; and attended all church social functions in one capacity or another. And, of course, studied the bible in a cursory fashion in order to know what our religion was based upon...

So, the "Why" that I was seeking was channeled in the religious sense within the boundaries of Christianity.
However, my interests and reading wanted more.
One of the more profound experiences I had when I was about 11 years old was telling my minister that I didn't understand the Resurrection or the Trinity. He told me: "I don't think these are meant to be taken literally."
This blew my little 11 year old mind. If Christianity was meant to be an allegory, what was the difference between that and all of the other "allegorical" writings that I was reading? Why? What does this all mean?
(I did confirm that my minister actually did say something like that 40 years later at my older brother's ordination. He told me he didn't remember the conversation but, that it sounded like something he would say.)

Thusly, I spent most of my teenage years and 20's in a quest to find G-d; to understand "Why;" to discover the truth about Man and religion. I fully indulged in SexDrugsandRockandRoll (popular culture); I danced with the Hare Krishna's; I studied Silva Mind Control; I made the rounds of "Hippie" communes throughout the country; I practiced Hatha Yoga and studied Pantanjali; I learned Tai Chi Chuan from Maggie Newman of the school of Cheng Man-ch'ing; I studied and learned astrology; the I Ching and Tarot; I joined The Way, a Christian cult and the Divine Light Mission, the little fat Indian guru boy cult; I studied esoteric theater disciplines and various massage therapies; I read the "New Age" from Castanada to Watts; I read Lao Tzu and Taoism; I sat with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, a Tibetan Buddhist Master; I learned at Naropa Institute in Colorado; I learned in an "esoteric school" and studied the works of Georges Gurdjieff, Ouspenky, Nicoll, and Collins; I learned American Indian theology and read such works as Black Elk Speaks and Hanta Yo; and, a whole bunch of other stuff that I can't think of offhand (such as Scientology and one meeting with the Moonies).

These all contributed to my understanding of "Why." I had spiritual and psychological experiences affirmed my conviction in the "Invisible World" and that G-d does indeed exist.

And, about 30 years ago, I began to also study Judaism and the Torah.
And, over time, I realized that the Written Torah and the Oral Torah is, indeed, the "sun source" (as in "Sinanju" for those who might get a kick out of that obscure piece of information) for all esoteric knowledge and the Truth of G-d and Man's Purpose in This World.
So, now I can grasp "Why." Now I have to continue learning How and When and Where and Who....
Today, and for the last 20 plus years, I am an ("Ultra") Orthodox Jew (we call ourselves Torah observant Jews as there is really no such thing as "ultra" Orthodox. There are simply different Traditions in how we Observe the Torah.)
I still read good science fiction (not much good stuff out there) and still consider "The Lord of the Rings" one of the greatest pieces of English literature ever written (although Peter Jackson butchered the epic concept of Good and Evil in his movies); and, I still practice a bit of Yoga and Tai Chi...

Simple answer - I think we are born with a predilection towards theism, or not.

 

@ Moishe3rd

That is a fascinating life story. And I thank you for sharing it. I must admit that my knowledge about Jewish traditions are limited at best. I actually don't even know a single person here who'd be Jewish. I know cuss-words aren't allowed, but it so damn hard saying anything without cuss-words if you think of the f@%! Nazi-reason why I don't know no Jewish people. I regret if I might therefore ask questions I should already know or if I'm mistaken.

I thought it was (especially in the orthodox) Jewish belief impossible to convert to the Jewish religion. I seem to have heard that only if your mother is Jewish one would be accepted into the community.

I wonder as I read this that you always seemed to have looked to answer your "Why?" question on a philosophical level. I had that "Why?" question hunting me too, but I couldn't cope with anything I couldn't see. Feeling something just didn't do it for me. If something rationally didn't make sense to me, it just didn't work for me. Have you never looked for the rational approach rather than the mental approach?

 

First of all, some of the greatest Jewish Rabbis, Sages or Leaders were converts or the children of converts.
We don't proselytize and we discourage non Jews from converting to Judaism however, accepting a Jewish convert and treating him or her Better than a natural born Jew is a Commandment in the Torah that is mentioned more than almost any other Commandment.

Secondly, I happen to consider my approach extremely rational. Definitely intellectual.
As my brief bio suggests, I have always had trouble taking things on "faith."
Being a Jew is the result of years of study; experimentation; and personal experiences that led me to understand that G-d is real and His Torah is His Law that He gave to His People.
I have tasted and evaluated many fruits in This World.
I have found that, in terms of G-d and Torah, that A squared plus B squared does, indeed, equal C squared.
I find it irrational not to believe in G-d.
However, I understand the rationality of the different religions and different approaches to G-d.
Judaism does not claim to be the Only way of understanding G-d.

 

We Deist do not see Deism as a religion... rather its antithesis. One could make a strong case that science and the natural order of things is our religion.

 

As away, send a private message if you like. Us Deists are under represented here on the forums and I am happy to share my views.

 

I probably used the wrong words to describe what I tried to find out. Judging by you're answer (red) I probably come off wrong, and if I offended you I'm really sorry. I never meant that people who're religious are irrational or not intellectual.

I will try to find the right words this time. I just was reading of the list of things you tried (yet again) and am amazed that you looked for something on the philosophical level. It seems that feelings and senses would lead your path rather than hard hitting facts. They don't seem to please you enough. See I am the other way. If it's not hard fact but rather something emotional I can't see the use of it. Hence my problems also in the field of philosophy I suppose. I never was really able to have that "out of body"-experience or just let my feel for things tell me if something is good for me or bad. And because I have this way of thinking, the hard sciences are very pleasing to me. If we can from a practical standpoint explain the success or failure of things is very satisfying for me. You seem to have always looked for something beyond that. At least the vast list would suggest that facts listed wouldn't please you at all. It almost seems that there was just no way of you finding peace to the "Why?" question where I found it and that it was by nature that you would end up with some religion or some belief. Maybe this time I managed to explain what I mean by saying: What was missing in the pure facts and rational sciences (not that religion is not rational) which was fulfilled thou religion? Is there something specific you can think of were you just would have a moment where you thought "This is it!"...

 

I understand.
And, the only way I get offended is when folk try and attack Judaism and/or Jews on some kind of crazy or irrational basis. Otherwise, I enjoy trying to explain and/or discuss any religion or any aspect of Judaism.

I enjoy the knowledge of science and am fascinated by those few things that really interest me - like the intricacies of a cell but, for the most part I find the hard sciences and mathematics wonderfully useful but not very interesting unless they touch my field of expertise in my work life.
Pure facts and rational science is basically the mechanics of how things work in this world.
Great. Very useful. Often interesting. But ultimately unfulfilling for my life.

However, experiments, albeit subjective by definition, are what led me to G-d and His explanations of This World.
The "out of body" experiences in my life were all generally the result of "hard work" and deliberate experimentation.
Various forms of meditation; prayer; working in a certain manner; physical labor; interpersonal relationships; sexual practices; and more - all done in an intentional manner to discover whether A, B, C, D or other is true, are all means to the goal of finding out "Why?"
Studying the Works of those that have come before from Homer to Emmanuel Swedenborg to Aldous Huxley (to name practically none) and attempting to put their methods of knowledge into action are all means to the goal of finding out "Why?"
What is the difference between the Benedictine Order and the Franciscan Order? Why were they hell bent on killing each other?
Is Zen Buddhism "better" than Tibetan Buddhism? How? Why?
Why do the Norse gods have the same attributes and deification as did the Greek gods? What were the specific differences and Why?
Is Hinduism a monotheistic religion? (the answer is yes) Why does Hinduism survive and prosper in today's "rational" India?
Did Druids and Wiccans actually inhabit a different kind of reality? How?
What's with the American Indian religion? Again, was it really simply monotheistic? Did they also have a "Christ" figure?

If one experiments and investigates all these different notions, one might come to certain conclusions...

Understanding and mastering computer language and programming might be useful, but my "theistic" mind doesn't really work that way.

 

There's a story in the Bible of Jewish men raping Gentiles and taking them for wives. So if a person is only Jewish through his mother how did their kids become Jews?

 

I don't know.
I haven't read your bible...

 

Actually this thread title says different things to me and you. To me it's a "typo" "play on" both words, a theist/atheist and quite clever. It becomes much clearer after one reads the background story because at some point the poster was on both sides. I happen to be an Atheist after growing up Baptist, Jehovah Witness and doing my own spiritual journey through adulthood.

 

funny. I never saw that. I think it very clever now too, because you pointed it out. But really it wasn't my intention...

 

I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention to appear to reply to you. I was actually replying to Felicity the #2 post. It's taking me awhile and prompting from others to post with a quote to eliminate confusion Thank you

- - - Updated - - -

Actually this thread title says different things to me and you. To me it's a "typo" "play on" both words, a theist/atheist and quite clever. It becomes much clearer after one reads the background story because at some point the poster was on both sides. I happen to be an Atheist after growing up Baptist, Jehovah Witness and doing my own spiritual journey through adulthood. (Excuse 2nd posting)

 

By the way: He has less than nothing to do with the christian religion. And from my point of view (not in harmony with my own church in this special case) it would be the best for all religions in the world to follow this jewish tradition. If the mothers would decide the religious education of their children - and no one else would only try to do so - then all people from all religions could live in peace and harmony ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zovz8ZV_B6s