How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?

Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists.

Generally, as I indicated, we do not believe in anything supernatural. We go by what can be known or gleaned by evidence and proofs. Not by faith.

If you study up on the Cathars, for instance, you will see that their highest office is what they names their Parfait. Basically, a perfected fully Gnostic individual.

We, like the Jewish esoteric and mystical sects, --- those who control the thinking of Jewry and hold the Oral tradition that over rides the written Torah, --- put man above god because we know that they are all man made.

In the better days, there were no literalists or those immoral enough to honor a genocidal and immoral god.

This following proves my statement.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL

 

Referring to people as morons just makes your point even LESS clear.

 

I don't see a reasonable way to make Matthew 25 say something that Jesus didn't explicitly state. He did refer to his followers as being divided into sheep and goats - reasonably obscure today. But, Jesus stated the criteria and the reward for each very clearly.

The GR is great. However, I just see people finding numerous ways to excuse themselves due to the vague nature of the judgement criteria. For one thing, the GR in some of its several forms only kicks in when someone decides to be active - the easiest dodge of the GR being doing nothing at all.

 

Do you not think someone who 1) someone to kill them - (sans the obvious and non applicable such as torture or pain or some ailment where dying is preferable to living - someone who .. happily living a good life - but wakes up in the morning and Hey -- I think I would like someone to kill me today)
2) Thinks this is a sound basis for law

Perhaps there could be a better term than "Moron" since you want to semanticize - but is this not a moron ?

Regardless, the point on which the headlights are shining - it matters not what term we use so worry not about coming up with a different one.

The point is that this type of person - what ever we want to call it - is rare .. and so will not impact the outcome of the game.

 

I agreed that such people don't exist.

I think you misinterpreted something I posted.

 

the misunderstanding then went both ways .. hence the headlight allusion.

and indeed they do exist - find the strangest thing you can think of and some moron is doing it - you were one using the moron as an example against the golden rule - you just didn't call it that .. but it was a moron never -the less. "Some fool might think this" see the Golden Rule doesn't work - was basically the sum total of your argument .. which I corrected in previous posts.

 

Who is "they?"

 

I do not know what a GR is.

Use words please.

Regards
DL

 

The immoral religionists who are Christians and Muslims.

Generally homophobes and the misogynists who discriminate without a just cause because god tells them to do so.

Regards
DL

 

Then why did Paul LIE about that experience?

There are THREE different VERSIONS of that story!

Cops KNOW that when someone keeps on changing their story they are LYING.

 

GR - Golden Rule.

Sorry, someone else started using that on this thread and it seemed reasonable at the time.

 

And where do you think that this "life force/soul" comes from?

 

'Yahweh' means 'LORD.' https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Lord-[Yahweh]-Is-God

 

same place everything else comes from

 

what verse in the bible, I gave you my link, is there one to support your claim?

 

Did you even CLICK on the link that I sent?

 

Which is where?

 

do you have a verse or not, it's a simple thing to post

 

down by 5th ave

 

Every living organism has "life force".

If they didn't, they wouldn't exist. Natural selection tends to favor life forms that show that kind of resiliency and other features that we call life force.

We are a species that has consciousness concerning ourselves, so we can look at our various components, including emotions, etc., and see them as special attributes and wonder "where that came from".

But, it's really no different than wondering where we acquired other attributes. Where did we get love? Where did we get hair? Where did we get an appendix?

If you believe god rolled humans out of spit and dust, then I guess that's your answer. But, that's a long long ways from convincing to me.

 

You don't need to be religious to know right from wrong. In general it is a matter of conscience. That homosexuality or any immoral behavior is a perversion is a matter of conscience, not religion, though it may be referenced in religious doctrine. Not sure where you get that Christians hate women. In both my secular and Christian experience, women are cherished. In fact, women were key in my conversion and revelation that God is real and lives. So for you to say that I and those of my faith hate women is a baseless accusation. There is nothing more hateful than to deceive, mislead, and corrupt another human being, be it man or woman.

 

Yes, they're chemical reactions which increase in complexity as organisms become more complex.

The goat-herders of old didn't understand that.

The Greeks certainly knew what a brain was. I mean they'd seen brains cause people get their heads split open with swords or crush in fall or something, but they had no idea the brain was comprised of Billions of cells.

In fact, it would be more than 2,000 years before anyone saw a biological cell.

Not understanding that the brain was Billions of cells working together and undergoing chemical reactions that give rise to consciousness, the Greeks could only guess at what makes us go and they erroneously guessed it was because our bodies are inhabited by a "soul."

If those Greeks were alive today and knew what we knew, they would admit their error and realize that there is no soul.

What does that say about x-tians who cling to baseless ancient concepts?

 

Amen.

From the beginning, religion has faced some really tough problems related to humans growing in their understanding of how things actually work as opposed to how their religion states those things work.

 

Where did all the gods get theirs?

Nature, as all the gods are man made.

Especially the genocidal, homophobic and misogynous ones.

Regards
DL

 

Only those who put sex over love will see a perversion in two souls putting love over sex.

Love should always be your guide. Not sex.

Go away before I use words like pathetic immoral piece of human garbage.

Regards
DL