You know, I could care less about winning a debate with an atheist for this matters not in the scheme of things. They by their unbelief have set before them a path that leads to nowhere but a hopelessness they will spend eternity with. This is unfathomable to me. One who calls himself a Christian yet believes not the Holy Bible or rejects Jesus as divine and our only path to Salvation, best re-evaluate their position lest they find revelation in Matthew 7:23 the moment they take their last breath.
I mostly agree, but from personal experience, I would say that debates plant a seed, and may ultimately generate a change of mind in one of opposing views (though you won't ever see it in a one to one). Example: I used to be pro-death penalty and argued it should actually be applied more liberally. After many debates, I continued using my arguments until I found them unconvincing even to me...finally I changed my position. It was an evolution that I could claim came from my own reasoning, but honestly--it came from being shown the flaws in my prior reasoning by other people. I can't tell you who helped shaped my change of mind, but the seeds were planted and it was changed. So--though it might SEEM futile...perhaps it's not entirely....
You don't have a case. Our Father in heaven is the only Judge we will stand before and your earthly lawyering and debating will do you no well.
Here's an example of someone having the integrity to admit the oposing POV had a better argument http://www.politicalforum.com/4640277-post138.html Bravo, Giftedone .
Sorry to just jump in here. Though, I caught interest after reading the title. I have a couple of questions for those of you who believen god. 1) Why do you believen god? (example: you were brought up that way) 2) Give me one piece of observable testable evidence that supports god exists. This is all I ask.
I have a couple of questions for those of you who believe in allah. 1) Why do you believe in allah? (example: you were forced up that way) 2) Give me one piece of observable testable evidence that supports allah exists. This is all I ask.
Jesus never lost a debate, for no one could debate the truth. He defeated satan on the cross, you should be beholden to him.
just as a matter of interest, what do you think of BFOJ's argument that I am morally and spiritually inferior because I am an atheist? I would be interested to hear a more rational christian viewpoint on this issue.
Atheists are children of God--all people are. I believe it is true that if they die without accepting the reality of God, God is just, and will give the atheist exactly what he clung to in his life--a Godless existence. But a LIVING atheist is not without hope. Whether they accept it or not, all that is good in them comes from God and so their morality and their moral beliefs are also of God. They have spirituality and morality--they could not be the image of God if they didn't, and all mankind is the image and likeness of God. I don't feel it necessary to belittle their lack of faith. Faith is a grace. I wish all people tapped into it.
For starters, make sure you want and need to have a debate in the first place. Know what you are talking about and how to communicate what you mean. The only way to 'win' is by first deciding what winning means, and nobody else can decide that for you. The quickest way to 'lose' is usually in trying to convince the person they're wrong when what you should be doing is explaining why you disagree. I know that wasn't the cheat sheet of pro tips you were looking for, but they should help you none the less. For example's sake alone, I'll respond to this other post in the thread and you can decide if either side is the right or wrong way for you. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope that helps, Carls.
A debate should be about presenting evidence and counter evidence. However, debating with a religious person is like debating a politician, they're right just because they say so.
thats what I figured. I have met very few christians - or people of any faith - who have this view, but unfortunately that is a perspective I have encountered here quite a lot. I am interested in religion, I grew up a catholic, and took my beliefs seriously, later on I explored other faiths and various beliefs as well. I understand why people believe, and if people find something in their faith that "value adds" to the meaning of their life and enriches them in some fundamental way, that is all well and good. For me, religion and faith did not do that, so I took a different path. It doesn't make me less than another. It just means my path is different. People like BFOJ were the first "christians" I encountered on this forum, and I responded to them initially in what I believe was a respectful manner - but in order to be respected, it is important to treat others with respect. It would be nice if the real christians on this forum distanced themselves from the comments of people who denigrate atheists in this way.
Yep the Christian god punished people for seeking the fruit of the tree of KNOWLEDGE, and never forget than when everyone was working together in peace and tranquility, he busted their chops, made them all speak different languages and quit the unity thing and go off and start wars. The Christian god despises intellect, knowledge and working together. But give him a walled city and he is ready for death, rape, destruction and genocide.
hmmm - I missed this earlier. I do not need my life interpreted through your faith. I could say - a christian is not without hope - they may - like me - begin to understand life differently one day, and appreciate the world we have far more than they do by having to see it mediated through their faith in a non existent God? the thing is - I don't - because I have more respect for people of faith in general, than you do for atheists. Nobody can prove or disprove the esistence of God - I have no doubt that he is real - in the minds of believers - but you can not prove to another that God exists. your comment, in substance, is not that much different from BFOJs. when christians say things like this, it makes me think that maybe hardline atheist fundamentalists like Richard dawkins and his ilk are justified.
My only point here is that he did not convert through debate. In fact, in the end he was all alone was he not? Of course, being raised from the dead helped him a bit later on.
Obviously. His God sees as bad the free thinking. So yeah. No free thinking. Just we have to read the myth of Eve and Adam, and read between lines, and we get a new nice message.
I would dispute that I denigrate atheists per se. They are my fellow humans, they are loved equally by God, I take no issue with one's belief or unbelief. If I come across like that then I was in error and leaning on my own failed humaness, not my Christian teachings. For this I will apologize. I shall respect the individual, respect their right to believe in what they will. I will not necessarily respect that which they believe in for three reasons. 1) If it serves the purpose of satan. 2) If it leads others to an eternity with no hope. 3) If it mocks and denigrates the Christian faith.
That's because in your path of life you have decided currently that you get nothing from religion. That's fine. You are free to do that, and view your life that way. That is YOUR experience and how you view life and the world in which we all live together. I view my own life and the world somewhat differently. You asked me a personal view, so I gave the response from my personal perspective. Of course, being a believer in the Christian God, I am going to believe that all good comes from God. It would be contrary to all that I believe to think that only the good Christians have comes from God, but unbeliever's good is somehow the product of something else--it's a world view--rather a universal view--concerning the nature of mankind. This is an emotionally defensive response. I respect PEOPLE--not their status as Christian or non-christian. There are many Christians that annoy the hell out of me and whom I disrespect utterly (save for their being children of God), and there are many atheists whom I hold in very high regard. so, your response tells me you are reacting emotionally rather than reasonably. I said, nor implied any such thing. True. I think there is respect in not pronouncing someone dam ned. Frankly, that's not a Christian's job--the relationship between God and every individual is a private affair. If you want to see no respect--follow that "ilk." You asked for a personal perspective. What did you expect? Some answer inconsistent with a Christian worldview? It's not a matter of respect, Cassandra, it's a matter of perspective and presentation of that perspective. You need not be offended. If I asked you what you think of believers and if they are deluded by their desire to believe in a personal god...you, an unbeliever...what would you say? In fact, Cassandra, I have seen you say such things that might be viewed as having little to no respect for people of faith, so don't be so sensitive and, through that, dismissive.
It is not scriptural that ALL (including atheists) are children of God. The Word is very clear on this matter. I can provide the evidence of this. A living atheist has hope until his last breath. Sure, everyone has good in them and morals, good or bad. Man was created in the image of God, however when sin entered into the world, that spirituality became corrupt and only through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can one be spiritually one with God. The immorality of man in general is not of God and man's thoughts on the matter if not of God then is of fallen man. It is religious doctrine and tradition that keeps people from truly experiencing a loving God. Faith is the positive response to God's Grace. It's not for me to judge one's faith if that faith is in something other than God. My hope is that all come to the knowledge of God's grace and belief in His Son.
All people are made in the image and likeness of God, and all people have been tainted by the influence of sin. Don't equivocate in error. That is the way I was using the term. Another way to use the term "children" is in reference to binding oneself to the Family of Christ. That is a different use of the word "children" than I was using. True--and still a child of God. There is a difference between having good, and being one with God. You can have a broken relationship, but still be a child of God. I am a devout Christian, but i am not always "one with God." I beat up and break the relationship regularly. I turn back humbly, over and over. Non-believers have the same opportunities that I do--the difference is that i avail myself of that mercy. Atheists have good in them--that is of God. Christians have sin in them--that is not of God. What is your point? We are all the same with regard to morality and immorality. Where do you think the message has been carried all these years? Without religion, you'd have no bible--you wouldn't know who Jesus is. This comment above is a MAMMOTH modern error. likewise.
As an atheist I am forced to agree with you in one way. You cannot win a debate, because there is no common room to debate on. But, you are correct in stating that to be a Christian you must deny facts, evidence and proof, that you must accept nonsense despite the knowledge of reality that exists. That we can agree on.
