I Am FOR Gay Heople Having Equal Rights.

I'm for gay people having EQUAL RIGHTS. If you aren't FOR the same, then why aren't you?

I'm with the President wholeheartedly!

Thank you, Mr. Obama; thank you so very much!!!

 

And here come the religious zealots!

 

Yep. Yes.

 

As a mormon, I find the idea revolting, homosexuality that is - not equal rights. Homosexuals are still human beings in the eyes of God and the law of the land. They deserve equal rights on the merit that they have a pulse and nothing more. Whether or not they choose to keep them relies entirely on their own behavior in the future.

What I am against is getting special rights, exclusive to their homosexuality. Such as hate crime legislation. And special grants to start businesses due to sexual orientation. But I am against grants to minorities as well based off of race too... but that is another topic entirely.

Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business altogether. I can see the tax return as the largest scale operation of prostitution in the USA. I get a tax benefit for being married and having kids - something I was going to do ANYWAYS. So why should I get special perks for merely doing what I desire? Answer: I shouldn't. But then again neither should homosexuals who simply cannot produce offspring due to natural biological functions.

I think that if we take the money out of the equation this will largely go away. Marriage should be left to the people and whatever non-governmental authorities they choose to adhere to. It should be a social/religious custom that people can enter into without (or with minimal ) the gov's interference.

Peopls should be free to choose their own associations. Who they hire, and whatnot, it will lead to a society that can segregate into its own naturally cohesive groups. Queers with queers, whites with whites, asians with asians and so on. For vast reasons both reasonable and unreasonable some people may not enjoy working with or even employing homosexuals, so why force them to enter into a situation that is bad for both of them? It profits nobody.

Sorry for the rant, I am for equal rights, but not special perks (that they think are rights) that the homosexual crowd seems to be pushing for at every chance they get.

 

I too am for all individuals having equal rights regardless of how they have sex, what profession they are in, what they like to eat etc

it's a non issue because I have not heard of one instance where someone is denied free speech, free religion, bear arms, vote etc because of how they have sex so yes, I'm with the OP on this


I'm not sure why it's even a thread

 

because they are denied the basic civil right of marriage.

 

I thought that we would hit this little snag, marriage isn't a right, it is a voluntary contract with two (or more depending on culture/religion/government/level of sanity...) parties that is needlessly enforced by the government. The government has never given my rights before, but has certainly tried to limit them. We are born with rights.

Marriage is a privilege because it hinges entirely on another human beings like/love for you...in the current day and age. This hardly qualifies it as a right in the least, if that were so, you can guarantee that everybody would be married just for tax purposes and inheritance law alone. We don't have arranged marriages here in the USA, atleast legally speaking. Social expectations of one's family and friends is outside the scope of this.

And really this issue largely stems from economic incentive to get married. If two homosexuals want to engage in civil contracts with each other than be my guest, they can go to their local Kinko's and print off a certificate stating such and it will matter just as much 100 years from now as my marriage certificate - nothing.

Marriage licences and whatnot are just another way to extract money from people without calling it a tax. If you take the money out of this equation this whole gay-marriage debate nonsense would disappear in a moment except for a select few aberrant die-hards who really want it.

We got along just fine without marriage laws for thousands of years, why do we have needless paperwork and fees for it now? Answer: it pays a government employee and it makes people more controllable.

Catching my drift here Rahl? The government is an unnecessary complication to the function of marriage, they institutionalized it and have been working to ruin it ever since.

Thoughts?

 

Well for one, the fact that you require a second partner to marry does not mean that marriage itself isn't a right... it just means nobody is required to help you obtain or fulfill that right. It's a right that is supposed to be free from unreasonable infringement on the part of the government, but doesn't necessarily mean you must execute it or that anybody must help you do so. It is akin to the freedom of religion, speech, and the right to bare arms in that regard: You are free to do so, but just because you can't build your own church, pay for your own speaking platform and media, and build and buy your own gun on your own doesn't mean that they are not rights. Similarly, just because not everybody wants to follow a religion, share an opinion or own a gun doesn't mean it's not a right to do so. So the line of reasoning that you take, suggesting that marriage is a privilege, not a right, because it hinges on the support of others and because not everybody is married makes no sense when you consider these other rights in similar light.

That said, and like you were saying, if marriage really is a right, then why does government need to be involved in the first place? Why the complication? Why do you need a "license" to exercise a right? I support that line of reasoning, although I consider it largely idealistic and implausible that marriage will be removed from laws, amounting to an exercise in futility.

 

And I have yet to see anyone seriously call for what you suggest. Usually, some anti-gay homophobe CLAIMS that "special rights" are being sought.

Can you PROVE that "special rights" are anyone's actual goal? If not, then you haven't said anything significant.

 

Nope. The supreme court ruled marriage is a basic civil right

 

ahhh

so this thread isn't about actual rights; it's yet another thread about govt approving of marriage based upon a specific sexual act.

Please tell me how allowing the fed govt to bestow privileges upon 2 people for having sex with each other is fair and just to all single people?

 

no, it's about basic civil rights.

 

Well, I could say what I think of mormonism, but what would be the point? Clearly yours was to demean a certain group of people.

Quote me chapter and verse in the actual 'hate crime' legislation that makes it exclusive to homosexuality, then. You won't be able to, because it doesn't. Hint: Heterosexuality is a "sexual orientation", too.

That's a new one - hadn't heard this canard before.

By which you obviously mean disassociations from people they don't like. I'm not fooled by your attempt to frame it in the positive.

Which all sounds good in print, until you realize that the net effect is minorities being forced to live in poverty and in ghettos because the majority can use their "freedom" to exploit the situation. Only those who find themselves in the majority will be able to get the best jobs, live in the best neighborhoods, send their kids to the best schools, etc.

I hate being forced to make this kind of reference, but we've seen the effects of segregation and disassociation before. "Juden werden hier nicht bedient." "We serve whites only." Etc. Best look to the future: The time is coming when whites will no longer be the majority in the USA.

Keep telling yourself that. I, for one, don't believe you.

 

They can marry.

 

really? nobody is denying anyone from being together so no RIGHTS are violated. The Bill of Rights spells them out quite clearly

 

Thank you. I would like equal rights. Does that make me biased? Because I want is best for myself just like every other American?

 

Really just one??? (*)(*)(*)(*) me. Actually please don't that would probably be really boring.

 

really? same sex couples are now able to marry in all 50 states? when did this happen?

 

they are being denied the basic civil right to marry.

 

no

they do not receive the blessing from the govt. They are denied nothing.

the govt has no business in any marriage. The govt should only concern itself with individual rights as set forth by the Constitution and marriage was not one.

 

<<<mod edited>>>

Indeed I don't think much of those that can't figure out basic biological processes. For many years homosexuality was deemed a mental disorder until fierce lobbying took it off the list. So yes I do approve of freedom to disassociate as well as associate with each other, it happens quite naturally, why fight nature?

The "we serve whites only" comment? Indeed white people are dropping like flies, but also not the point - I'll also try to stay on point.

Misguided, and ill informed. Thankfully there are people like me in the world. Below are presented facts to you. Read them and then see if you can tell me that there aren't special protections/perks for minorities and homosexuals(among other deviants).

Hate crime legislation doesn't affect homosexuals eh? Than why is this happening? Indeed the legislation doesn't say it protects homosexuals, so why is it happening? Riddle me that one.

As for business opportunities? Didn't have to look hard at all, simply googled it. Look here and here. <<<mod edit>>>. Essentially if I am a white male I am screwed, and contrary to popular belief not all white males are well to do or spring from affluent stock. But if I am a fruitcake I can get a gov perk to start a business. Where is the justice in this?

So yes, I am very much for equal rights, if I could get these 'rights' I doubt you'd here me griping, but I can't because of who I am by birth right. And since I can't get these groovy perks, they are certainly special privileges granted solely off of homosexuality or race. Total crap if one believes in equality. Some people are clearly more equal than others.

<<<mod edit>>>

 

yep

of course they are. they are being denied the basic civil right of marriage, and the 1400+ rights that go with it.
the

I agree, but at this point in time they are in the business of marriage.

irrelevant to the topic. they ARE in the marriage business.

 

Cheers. You're right about that though, too much money to be made in divorcing people. Marriage will always exist to allow lawyers and courts to profit from it. Sad state of affairs really.

 

Claims are actually irrelevant at this point - they do have special perks by their gayness. That I find revolting too.

 

No "ahhh"... I think you are trying to frame this in a way I've never heard a serious court case attempt to do.

It really IS about equal rights.