I am the Chosen One

Always.

 

On Morning Joe this morning, they made the accurate point that TDS is suffered by BOTH SIDES. Those who support Trump, & endorse his every thought, move or action, are just as affected by the virus as those of us who oppose him. Their actions are just as inscrutable & mystifying as Trump's. Neither of them make logical sense. Yet, both are equally oblivious to their own irrationality. From my perspective, Trump is a true aberration, & a dangerous one--for our country & for the world at large. I am stunned that not one single Republican member of Congress has stood against Trump's assault against all the values the Republican Party used to claim as their own. Their silence is a powerful statement regarding the state of dysfunction afflicting our current government & its leaders.

 

I did tell you, and I also observed that you wouldn't have passed a basic economics class.

So, how come you're triggered nearly every time someone observes the Orange Oaf is a sicko?

 

Still, cannot compare it to someone who committed murder on industrial scale. By linking Trump to Hitler or Stalin you loom like extreme left and most moderates start ignoring you.
Trump is many things - rude, undiplomatic, undisciplined, etc, but he is no Hitler.

Well, he is much more persistent with his election promises than any president that I can remember. If he didn’t care about illegal immigration he would have dropped his efforts a long time ago.
Whether you agree with Trump or not, his actions contradict your claims.

Many people that I know who voted for him were primarily sick with identity politics. They were tired of media looking for racism everywhere, just to break a national story. They were tired of lefties trying people in the court of public opinion before real judiciaries could gather all facts. White people got tired of being blamed for everything and for being called racists every time they objected or criticized Obama. White coal miners in rust belt states who lost their jobs due to Obama policies got tired of being told that they are enjoying some white privilege.

Now, I voted for Hillary (with a bad taste in my mouth). Next time I will definitely vote against any candidate that advocates for reparations. And if that means a vote for Trump - then be it. To me it is crazier being forced to pay extra taxes to cover reparations for slavery (something none of my ancestors participated in) than to have a president who displays uncouth behavior. And that vote for Trump will not be because I like him - it will be because like the opposites even more. Choosing lesser of two evils.

And for the record - everyone I know who voted for trump agree that he has a nasty personality and they voted for him not because they liked him, but because they liked Hillary even less than Trump.

That’s why Trump has low approval ratings - not that many people really like him. The problem is that Dems don’t have anything to offer. Pocahontas? Biden? Cowboy Hat black lady? Pfft, I’ll vote trump, even though I’ll vomit on my way out of the polling station.

 

There is a lot of truth there. I think the obsession with Russiagate has been a form of delusion that has crippled the Democratic Party and showed just how shallow and petty the leadership is. Political theatre for political benefit. Sure Russia wanted Trump elected but like, .......the US has never interfered in anyone's elections before right

But Trump is a whole new order of dysfunction. The trouble is, while I do see the Trump presidency as incredibly dangerous for the entire world, I don't see him as an aberration.

Trump is the symptom - the logical progression of a political and economic system that has ceased to function rationally. The American political system has been heading down this road for decades towards an abyss where facts and reality are replaced by tawdry spectacle and illusion. The American people, especially the lower and middle classes have been so cowed and submerged in corporate propaganda and reality TV garishness that they can no longer see the world outside of empire as it really is. As democratic and social institutions have been stripped away, the American people are in a kind of shock like deer caught in headlights not knowing which way to run.

Like Rome and so many empires that have come and gone before, all pretense of higher moral standards and rational enlightened public interest have fallen to be replaced by ugly infighting and abject cruelty to those it deems it's inferiors and anyone who questions the rights of it's elites to rule at their will. America can only demonize the victims of it's own rapacious greed for wealth and resources at the same time that it uses it's bloated military to threaten the whole world with destruction if it does not get it's way.

And Trump is the clown that oversees the decent into deranged madness......

He is like the grinning madness of the emcee in Cabaret. And we are like Sally Bowles not realizing that the people in the front row in the final scene are the symbol of her own doom and that she has lost her last chance to escape her fate........



Welcome to the Cabaret, old chum......

 

The statistics department of the University where I got my PhD thought I did.

 

The opposite claim, that the pollsters got it right is absurd on its face.

The pollsters acknowledge that they got it wrong:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/why-2016-election-polls-missed-their-mark/

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/how-did-everyone-get-2016-wrong-presidential-election-231036

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/what-went-wrong-polling-clinton-trump/507188/

and many others.

------------

+1

How so? It worked very well. You all having been running around for two years with your hair on fire. It is most amusing.

 

Are all contemporary American teachers this articulate and eloquent? No wonder our skruls are so bad

 

Ah... a fella Green party voter you are!

 

Do you get your kicks out of misleading people about public opinion polling? The methodology of firms conducting polls with relatively large samples in smaller swing states is often suspect because they limit themselves to doing things like calling landlines.

 

Uh oh. Triggered, again?

 

Absolutely. Love it

 

No. I am interested in rebutting the misinformation that is often promulgated by the left.

For instance, in the Pew Research article I linked earlier we find:

"The fact that so many forecasts were off-target was particularly notable given the increasingly wide variety of methodologies being tested and reported via the mainstream media and other channels. The traditional telephone polls of recent decades are now joined by increasing numbers of high profile, online probability and nonprobability sample surveys, as well as prediction markets, all of which showed similar errors."

So polling firms do not "limit themselves to doing things like calling landlines."

In any case, all I am claiming is that the polls were wrong, a position you attribute to either spin or ignorance. Now you are offering a reason why the polls were wrong, an incorrect reason, but a reason none the less.

 

Horsesh't.



https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

I didn't vote for Hillary. Get a clue.

 

Triggered and staggering? Didn't and wouldn't vote Green.

 

1. In terms of mass murder, you're correct, although at least 7 children have died while being unnecessarily incarcerated along our southern border. If that had happened to white children, would you or other Americans be so silent?
2. Illegal immigration was being successfully taken care of before Trump became President. If he'd simply continued the policies of Obama, we wouldn't be in the situation we're currently dealing with. Obama was harsh on illegal immigrants too, but successful in controlling the border. Trump is excessively harsh--especially on families with children--but far less successful with his overall border security. Plus he has managed to create a human rights quagmire that calls into question America's commitment to human rights all together.
3. All the exhaustion you describe in your post pales in comparison to the exhaustion Trump has cause this nation with his daily tirades. Also, the coal miners of WV & other regions, lost their jobs because of decreasing demand for coal everywhere, & that was ongoing before Obama became President as well as during his Presidency. And, that was due to the growing awareness that coal was a toxic source of CO2 & other destructive gases in our air. Technology & lifestyle changes are constantly eliminating job sectors from the economy, while adding new ones at the same time. Coal miners are on the current elimination lists, like farriers, steam engineers for trains, gas station attendants, and thousands of other outdated careers that have disappeared thru time. Blaming Obama is misguided & irrelevant. Besides, Trump has been no more successful at saving coal miner jobs than Obama or anyone else. Those jobs are disappearing, period--no matter who's President.
4. First, I'd like to say I hope your vote depends on more than one single issue, like reparations. I agree with your stance on that issue, but it isn't a determining issue for me. There are other issues of more importance. In 2016, I was a Bernie supporter. Like you, I voted for Hillary with a bad taste in my mouth, but I felt she was a far better choice for President of the U.S. than Trump. I was right. So were you. Based on what I've seen in the current Democratic lineup for President, there are several I'm not fond of, and a few I feel comfortable with overall, though I agree completely with none. But, I want to vote for someone who will be a better President & representative for this nation than Trump has or ever will be. Honestly, none of the current Democratic lineup would be worse than Trump, so I'll vote for any of them who gains the nomination, though I do have preferences now. Even today, Trump in the G7 issues, continues attacking our long-term friends, while mindlessly supporting everything Putin wants. This week, Trump has publicly announced he wants to instill a policy of incarceration for all illegal immigrants--including children--that would continue without time limits. That would mean imprisoning innocent children for weeks, months & years, with not legal limit, for a simple misdemeanor--which is NOT regarded as a serious crime. Such human rights abuse is both un-American & unconstitutional, and the actions of a despot. How anyone who values human rights can vote for Trump is beyond my understanding.
5. Personally, I do like Marianne Williams, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, & Pete Buttigieg--though each at different levels & for different reasons. I also believe any of these would be a better President & leader for America than Trump will, or can, ever be.

 

They got the EC vote wrong, the one that matters. The state wide polls were wrong in many states. Pollsters acknowledge they were wrong and are trying to figure out why. You are defending people who have already admitted their mistake. I can't figure out why. Can you tell me?

 

Doesn't matter who you voted for or even if you voted at all. You are still running around with your hair on fire and that gives me real satisfaction.

 

Your post contains a lot of truth in it too. I have more hope than you that the trend you cite so clearly can be reversed under the right leadership. I don't want to accept defeat yet, but I admit the threat you describe is very real.

 

Both sides are promulgating BS about polling. Why are you limiting your concern to leftwing bull?

I said they're still often limiting themselves to landline polls.

You're misrepresenting my views. I said one of the reasons state polls have problems is they often conduct landline polls.

Nothing you've written about polling suggests to me you're taking an objective look at the problem pollsters have predicting elections. I'm sorry for their difficulties, but I'm not sympathetic to those who spins their results.

 

On this particular thread it is leftwing bull promulgated by you:

So you agree that the state polls were wrong.

All I've said about polling is that the results were wrong. I don't think that is spin.

I also provided links to the pollsters own discussions about why the results were wrong. I consider that an objective look at the problems and I still don't see any spin. As a former practitioner of statistics I have a special interest in this subject. That the reported results of polling were so spectacularly wrong is important, both to the profession and to the public.

What do you think I am spinning? I really can't imagine. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else?

 

Pathetic. I don't care about Trump being President. If I did, I would have supported Useless Hillary.

I'm interested in politics. I ran political campaigns, electoral and otherwise. I've been involved in two different countries--Canada and the United States. (Born and raised in LA, naturalized in Canada.)

If you're amused by people getting riled up--fine. If you think I'm riled up, you don't have a clue.

Trump? The guy is a sicko. No genius. Hillary? Dishonest, like Trump and husband Slick Willie. Warren? Dishonest, no economist? Sanders? A nutball. Biden? Not very smart.

Americans are getting what they deserve, IMO.

 

I'm only suggesting the national polls measuring the popular opinion were right.

I, too, have an interest as someone who has designed and conducted polls, run political campaigns, and himself led political fights (I've never run for political office).

You aren't helping the profession by lumping legit polling firms with the dishonest and/or stupid commentary around poll results. Geezuz, we have people conducting internet polls with no controls and then touting the results. They're like quack doctors.

 

The legit firms doing the polling, not the commentators like Nate Silver, did a fairly good job.

Okay.

They haven't en masse said they got it wrong.

 

The legit firms doing the polling got the counts wrong in many states. That doesn't seem like a good job to me.