I hope a GOD exists but I am not holding my breath!

I don't think you know what the word 'bigot' means.

 

There is no way to quantity the probability of God existing. Its like the Drake equation, the "equation" for calculating how many civilizations are in the Milky Way Galaxy, its total complete absolute guesswork, the only real number with any basis in fact is the rate of star formation in the galaxy and even that is a rough estimate.

 

Oh yes, the probability is extremely low. However, unless I stand corrected, the points of the universe's and terrestrial life's creation are the ONLY points where the response "god did it" is as acceptable and relevant an answer as any scientific hypothesis.

My point is that given our vastly superior knowledge of the workings of ourselves and our biosphere and our universe, it is logical to consider re=evaluating our concepts of god as a supernatural figure in the sky that "watches over us" and "has a plan for everyone" etc. etc.

if today the white board of the mind is erased and the question is posed "what is god" (without the benefit of any man made dogma) I think there would be a vastly different outcome, where "god" put the forces and processes into motion to create our biosphere. I might even concede its watching to see what the hell we will do with it.

We are the true caretakers of a very real garden of eden, we just don't want the responsibility.

 

No, the different beautiful flowers are expressions of terrestrial life. Their beauty is a result of evolution, you know to attract pollinators to spread their seed.

A lightning storm is a rather mundane atmospheric event. Are you not familiar with electricity?

A rainbow is a beautiful sight, but is nothing more than light refracting on rain drops.

Our notions of beauty and wonderment cannot be construed as evidence of any god. Your argument is exactly the same one used by more primitive men who couldn't explain an earthquake or volcanic eruption or a rainbow. Its a gift/punishment from god. It was the only acceptable method of explaining the enigmatic nature of our existence.


Granted such a philosophy makes life a lot easier for some.

 

Soviet atheists were "strong" atheists, meaning they were saying "there is no God".
No one was more "atheist" than they were.

However, they were also highly educated and reasoning individuals and they freely taught that Jesus of Nazareth was born 4 BC in a town of Bethlehem. The rest they dismissed as a Christian interpretation of spirituality ... which is OK, it is their opinion.

But to deny that Christ was not a historical figure is not something one should advertise, in my opinion.

Thanks,
Ed

 

i prefer to set aside the 'GOD question' and ask another question:

does greater (and/or creative) 'consciousness' exist?

no need to use a 'GOD' label.

1. do you believe in the existence of 'consciousness'? (for example, human, animal or plant consciousness)
2. does there exist a greater consciousness than human consciousness?
3. is this (or any) consciousness 'creative'?

 

Yes, consciousness is foundational to both intelligence and sapience.

I do not believe plants have a conscious since they do not have anything remotely resembling a brain.

To date there is no evidence of a greater consciousness. considering our understanding of consciousness, I would be hard pressed to believe that it can exist in non-corporeal form.

I am not sure that consciousness is the source of creativity. I have always believed that it is intelligence and sapience in tandem with curiosity and problem solving that comprises "creativity".

 

My position as an Atheist is most Agnostics are really Atheists hell I'm not ruling out a supernatural force out there however there is zero evidence that can stand up to observation and study by scientists of said force and by now its likely they would have found something. So why is an Agnostic different from me you lack knowledge of such a force its the same thing I just take the simple step and say until there is adequate evidence I'm not giving on the supernatural prime mover hypothesis called a god or gods and its up to the Deists to demonstrate this to me in a way it holds up to the scientific method. You might take soft evidence as evidence that fits outside that which is fine for you but I demand more, personal revelations and dusty old books of the religions isn't evidence.

 

i believe that plants are conscious of light and water. a tree's branches will direct themselves to light and its roots will direct themselves to water (albeit very slowly). every cell may be likened to a conscious brain. not all consciousness resembles human consciousness. there is human consciousness, animal consciousness and plant consciousness.

 

biochemical based reactions to environmental conditions does not make the case for consciousness. Exactly how can every cell can be likened to a conscious brain?

The only differences between our consciousness and other animals is that our consciousness is complemented by our sapience and comparative off the chart intelligence.

 

Provide evidence because what you are posting is false.

AboveAlpha

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HIS form????

So GOD has gender???

I think not.

AboveAlpha

 

This is simply Mathematical Probability.

It only details the Probability either way.

AboveAlpha

 

Quick question for the above person


Did the universe create itself?

 

Actually there is.

1 in 10^178th.

Cal Tech calculation.

AboveAlpha

 

The Universe is FINITE.

It was generated when a White Hole Quanta Ejection occurred and created space-time and all within it.

Every White Hole is connected to a Black Hole in another Divergent Universal State of Reality within a Multiversal System.

Our Universe did not come from nothing.

However there are infinite versions of our Universal Reality and infinite versions of you and I.

Quantum Mechanics backs this.

AboveAlpha

 

Any chance of me seeing your proof?

Why did you not reply as I asked.

Did the Universe create itself?

 

Are you meaning a COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS?

AboveAlpha

 

Just to add...there are many existing Sentient Beings with consciousness on Earth alone.

Because of what I do...and because I once had a NEED TO KNOW.....I am aware that Human Beings are NOT the only Space Faring species in this Universe.

AboveAlpha

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An Agnostic follows the Scientific Method.

AboveAlpha

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No.

The DEVELOPMENT of our Universe is a natural occurrence in a Multiversal System.

AboveAlpha

 

I think what you mean is that qm doesn't refute your hypothesis.

Finding a hypothesis that qm doesn't refute is progress, but there is a long way to go before scientists are going to express any confidence in that idea.

 

You have no education in Quantum Mechanics as if you did you would understand that it has nothing to do with not refuting my statement.

It is an integral part of reality.

If you studies for another 8 years then you and I could have an informed conversation.

But for now.....you simply do not understand.

AboveAlpha

 

I am very comfortable with what I said.

 

I was on Youtube earlier and I came upon a channel that had about 25 videos posted by a guy who mockingly claimed to be God's prophet. His god was not all-knowing, did not listen to prayers, and had never even heard of Jesus. Someone angrily commented that his dumb god was fictitious. The video publisher replied that there was no good evidence supporting any religion and that he was just as likely to be a real prophet as was Muhammad, the Mormon Joseph Smith, or any other prophet. The discussion stopped there.

 

As would anyone with such a limited knowledge of reality.

AboveAlpha

 

People are morons.

If some people knew even 5% what I know....it would not only confuse the hell out of them it would also make them question their very existence.

I don't want that to happen.

Religion is a good thing for many people as it helps them cope with death.

But not all of us are so worried.

AboveAlpha

 

That's totally made up. Its meaningless.