I hope my countrymen have the courage.

You are talking sharn yet again, fredc.....but why change the habits of however long your lifetime happens to be.

Children in England are brought up to believe Britain/the UK IS England. Do English schoolchildren get taught Scottish history before the Union? Sure as hell, I was taught English history from the Romans and William the Conqueror.

Perhaps if they had not been kept so woefully ignorant of the differences between us and our cultures, there would be less animosity engendered by those who come into Scotland and try to change us to conform to their idea of acceptable behaviour.

 

Not through their choice that they were used as security on a debt never paid by the King of Norway.

Right now Orkney and Shetland are a region in Britain, it should be down to the people who live there to decide if they wish to remain a region in Britain.

 

Nope........the debt was one owed to Scotland....so that makes the Islands Scottish.

Funny, though that you have no problem with the
Scots never having been consulted in the handing over of the country to the English for profit in 1707 and yet are using much the same situation regarding Orkney and Shetland in 1468 to maintain that they have the same right to choose their governance that you would deny the Scots.

Now is that rank hypocrisy or is it just another troll sh1t-stirring?

I know England thinks everything belongs to them......but just now, the Orkney and Shetland Islands are a part of Scotland......in the same way as Yorkshire is a part of England.

 

What is it with you? Everybody who doesn't agree with your Nationalist agenda must be trolling or (*)(*)(*)(*) stirring? I didn't agree with you in the Broadwater Farm thread either for very much the same reasons.Only then it was Irish Travellers you were definitely not being prejudiced against.

The Scottish Parliament voted for the union just the same as the English Parliament did.

 

Fred- do you or do you not believe that Scotland should have the absolute right to opt out of the union, if a majority vote that way, in 2014?

Yes or no?

 

Dear Jack, I've watched your FM Alex Salmond in operation., there's no way I'd attempt to counter the sales job he and his Nationalists have already done on you. All your posts indicate that you're not neutral/open-minded, you appear to have swallowed . There's nothing I can say to counter a canny /crafty Scot like Mr.Salmond + his SNP toadies.


...
SNP 's lines, hook-line and sinker .

 

Do you believe that everyone on this forum has the right to debate as they see fit and answer as they like not be dictated a choice of answers by someone else?

 

Once again, you've made a wrong deduction. While I , a sentimentalist who care abt scotland's future , they're fedup and couldnt care a Gnat's arse , abt it and would rather not have the question being dragged out.

btw - WHY is Mr.Salmond + SNP Nationalists depending /relying on immature sixteen year olds (easily influenced) children , for a YES to guarantee a majority for Mr. Salmonds' referendum ?


....

 

Fred- do you or do you not believe that Scotland should have the absolute right to opt out of the union, if a majority vote that way, in 2014?

Yes or no?

(Please be on topic)

 

Are they?

Wow, did the vote take place, and you already know how certain demographics actually voted?

Amazing perceptory skills.

 

Nor should they.

It is none of their business if Scots want to determine their own affairs.

 

I have never voted for the SNP, this is the sixth time i have told you the same thing.

To be told the same thing six times, and keep ignoring that, is not very honest.

Go on....sell me the real and hard benefits to remaining in the Union?

Can you name four key benefits?

 

Are you going to grow up and stop using juvenile debating tricks now?

Yes or no?

 

Jack, I have no objection to a well informed mature/adult/educated Scottish electorate deciding their future.
But I question Alex Salmon'ds + the SNP's motives for allowing ill-informed / easily influenced /immature ,half-educated sixteen year olds - taking part.


What do you think ?

(Pls dont repeat Salmond's BS abt 16yr olds being eligible army recruits , as I've already dealt with that point in previously posts. )


Thanks..


....

 

It is a simple and on topic question.

Why not answer it, Freddy?

 

Good = because that is precisely what we want, and what I hope it to be.

There is no evidence to suggest that the demographic of 16 yr old's would collectively give a 'yes' vote, they could just as easy be swayed by the benefits of being in the union.

Which are>>>?

 

Nothing wrong with the question, I just don't like being told what my answer has to be.

 

I sincerely hope you can remember what you was like when 16 yr old ? + meanwhile note how Alex Salmond + his nationalist are hoping to exploit 16 yr old scots vulnerable naivity.

I rest my case . (wink)


....

 

I accept yr word , that you've NOT voted for the SNP but acccording to your posts , your views are no different to theirs. So , IMO - It doesnt matter whether you DID or DID'nt Its the Same thing .

...

 

Was a long time ago now, but you seem to think that all 16 yr old's are incapable of understanding, and I don't share your pessimism. Like I said before, if you disclude them from potentially having their say, on the generalisation that they have not a wit what they are doing, then do we apply that to anyone who is considered to have not a wit? If not, why not, since not having a wit and being easily manipulated seem to be your two concerns here..

Your narrative of Alex Salmond acting as some sort of Child Catcher figure, seducing lots of wee ginger heided Scottish lassies and laddies into the den of vice that is self determination, it is funny...but not accurate at all.

After all, I could equally argue that these pesky Unionists will roll out all those really seductive reasons and selling points for staying in the Union.

I realise that we haven't heard any on here, but I am really really sure there are tons of them.

So, all the unionists need to do is point to all those many benefits, that no one is speaking about, on here.

Esp not the unionists.

 

I disagree. while various domestic/family circumstance might lead /force a 16 yr to leave school and seek gainful employment , its doesnt mean he/'she is automatically qualified to "shout at a vote" on major national issues .

Otherwise why can explain most major Western countries consider 18 yrs as the age of adult responsibility. Would you permit - stand by /remain silent and let your 16 yr old offspring become intoxicated in a Pub . ? or worse experiment with various drugs ?


....

 

Well, once again, please do not profess to know my mind, better than I do.

You would be the first to complain if people on here decided that they knew more about your mind, than you do.

Just because I feel the time may be right for Scottish affairs to be determined and decided in Scotland, does not make me a supporter of the SNP, and if it did, I would say it did. Nor does it mean all my views, or even most of them, could be found in the SNP manifesto.

If you happen to share one policy view, with a given party, does that automatically and forever lump you in with them, and make you some sort of nodding dog fan boy? Hardly - it merely means that you may agree on that one specific policy.

The policy I agree on with the SNP (and non SNP Scots), is that Scottish people should have the right to self determination, if that is what they choose.

I really fail to see why you don't just accept that it is what it is, rather than trying to make something more from it.


Jack

 

If a 16 yr old is paying tax and national insurance, why the heck should he or she not get a say on the future shaping of their nation?

On what grounds do you disclude them from that, save from some generalisation that they are too witless and easily manipulated.

Why not extend that to anyone, in any vote, that is stupid and easily manipulated then? Who would decide that though? And how would it be applied?

I think you are paying this way too much attention, to be honest.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

The answer is 'not if I could help it'.

However, if they took an interest in Scotland, I would encourage that, and if they took an interest in the referedum, I would encourage that. If they wanted to have a say in their own future, by way of the nations future, I would also be okay with that.

I get that you wouldn't be, and would rather assume your teen to be too thick, to encourage any of the above.

I understand.

 

Please answer the original question then...