If not all people should have guns, who should have guns exactly?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by kazenatsu, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I prefer the founder's view, that the militia should be the primary national defense, and should effectively replace the Army as such.

    For expediency, I'll quote myself on the subject from another thread:

    I don't think compulsory service would be necessary in this scenario, but I wouldn't oppose it so long as it was only ever for defense of our own soil and no one could be compulsed to serve in a foreign war.
     
  2. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    This is why you need to have more experience with the service. Your ideas arent practical. We have militia, one organized, the guard and reserve units, and one unorganized, made up of the selective service registrants.

    You can’t replace the standing army with either of these two, as their components for support are way too much for any guard or militia unit to take in. You need to look at the service.

    All you think they are are cowboy soldiers and pilots.
    There are 4 -6 that number for support personel for every active duty soldier depending on the branch.

    Your little militia would fold like a tent the first sign of a standing Army from ANY COUNTRY . This is why more of the gun fanatics need to actually serve.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 3:21 PM
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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If by 'qualified', you mean partisanly activist or straight up corrupt...
     
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Edit out the bulk of my post so you can pretend I didn't already address those points... not playing that game. Which parts of what I actually said (repeated below) do you find insufficient to defend the nation?

    "I think if we were to translate what the founders intended from the 17-1800s into modern warfare with modern technology, we would still have a (smaller) professional navy, a (smaller) professional air force and a (smaller) dedicated professional intelligence/information/cyber agency. We would also need some professional trainers, organizers and command staff that would be responsible for overseeing the training, supply and regional/national cohesion of 'the militia'. The militia would comprise of the bulk of the civilian population who lived at home and had normal day jobs but were suitably incentivized to volunteer to take a few days off of work a few times a year to gather with others in their community to train and maintain some sort of standardized competency together in infantry and guerilla-style roles, as well as emergency civil roles like SAR and natural disaster response. Very similar to the National Guard, except vastly more numerous as it would be in place of a standing army, and largely able to mobilize 'from home' instead from a military base. Every community would have an armory that operated similar to a volunteer fire dept, though most likely under the jurisdiction of the local elected Sheriff's dept, where citizen soldiers that have taken on advanced training and demonstrated superior reliability and responsibility would be in charge of the storage, maintenance and security of specialized militia weapons and equipment like armor, explosives and artillery, as well as civil emergency equipment and supplies like food, medicine, sandbags, bulldozers and fuel. Think like instead of having the National Guard or State Guard or State Reserves... every community would have its own 'Community Guard' (or hopefully something more catchy, but I think I've made my point)."
     
  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I read it...there are no provisions for the support personel that must be kept active 24/7 every day of every year, full time.

    The support personell are three to four times the number of active duty soldiers.

    the only support people you talk about are the weapons STORAGE. Again, this fabrication fails to include what a modern Army includes.

    the founding fathers feared a standing....too bad though, you’ll lose every war against one. They had no choice.

    You need Rand D, hospitals, construction outfits, housing for dependents, al, your food procurement and storage, not to mention, banking and payment facilities ......and infrastructure and maintenance.

    you need intelligence and on it goes, none of which can be handled by a part time militia. A standing army is a nation within a nation. You’ve not scratched the surface. They are a necessary evil


    By the time you finish your description, you’re back to a standing army with a name change. It’s funny, but it’s been done.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 5:06 PM
  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Go get a degree in law, then come back. As really, no one will listen to you and the ideas of the like minded reconstruction wannabes until you do.
     
  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Seriously. You need to talk to more then a few vets who have been stationed and served overseas. Our nation’s security starts on the borders of our allies. If you wait to defend this country at our borders, you’ve lost every war in the last two hundred years. You guys are strangely uninformed. All the little toys you glorify and play with are supported by trade throughout the world that is supported and protected by our military.

    Trump set this effort back years with his idiocy and compulsions for third world dictators instead of allied building. Keep with this lunacy and we lose grip on all your freedoms.
     
  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Who told you that? I’m unlicensed and can legally manufacture guns all day if I want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 6:34 PM
  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected. I assumed we were making it as a regular gun maker for sale or distribution. That’s what we were talking about. I wasn’t clear.

    Let me amend that and say, sure, you can make all you want, but let any of them find their way in the possession of anyone else, you can have your arse fried.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 6:44 PM
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Btw, are you talking about printing guns? Cause really, it’s a pretty expensive way to make trashy guns that no ones going to want to shoot without being in the next room.
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It doesnt sound like you read it... I specified that certain specialized roles would still need to be professional (ie- full time jobs), like intel which I literally included, and like "command and organization", which I figured would be understood to include general support- cooks, clerks, maintenance, etc. Some of that could easily be assigned to volunteer militia seeking additional responsibility to move up the CoC, some couldn't. Im so sorry that I didn't write you full bill ready to submit to congress, outlining every detail... :rolleyes: But suffice to say, there would be a lot less less support staff needed if the bulk of the 'ground force' were expected and trained to operate more independently, more locally, with more community participation.

    But then, I guess I did know imperialists and status quo lovers would of course hate the idea and thus nitpick...
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 7:41 PM
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know plenty of vets. While their opinion on how the military works vs how it should work varies as greatly as the rest of us, what every single one of them that I know would scowl (to put it litely) at you for is your apparent opposition to the right to bear arms. You might also be interested to know that the bulk of the modern militia movement is led by... you guessed it, vets. Veterens are the backbone of the militia, especially combat vets. And most of the vets around here still fly Trump flags... They don't generally seem to share your opinion that we need to wage war all over the world to protect the homeland either. Though, admittedly, I live in a rural area, and those are the prevailing positions of pretty much everyone here, vet or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 7:58 PM
  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. However, I can make firearms and sell them or trade them or give them away. I just can’t manufacture them with the intent to transfer them to another. That gets hard to prove or disprove but ending up in the hands of another is not in and of itself illegal.
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t matter. Print, file and weld, CNC, finish a purchased 80%, it’s all good as long as you aren’t making the firearm with intent to transfer.

    Good printers are $250-$500. Less than the cost of the average handgun. I know of lots of people with printed firearms with over 500 rounds through them. Most firearms I’ll bet never see 500 rounds in their entire existence. Of course some do, but many are hardly ever fired.

    I don’t have the inclination to try printing but someday maybe. When metal printing is mainstream options will really open up. Parts to repair equipment, tools, vehicles—can’t wait.
     
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  15. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Not the three D printers. Try $10 k. You still get horrendous quality. It’s just a dream.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 8:34 PM
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  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You can prefer anything you want. It ain’t happening. How many dream worlds do you guys make up. It’s wonderful conversation just like talking about the wizard of Oz. You can’t name one weapons system in the entire US Arsenal that can be replaced by a half baked militia....the training is so intense, the support is so profound, other then scattered guard units which are totally depended to upon standing army bases and support, militias are just an idea to keep gunners infatuated with their tools.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll stick with the opinion of vets that I can personally verify are intelligent, competent humans on these matters. But thx anyway.
     
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Don’t tell any vets in the Air Force, navy or military over seas that they shouldn’t be anywhere but sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring on the Canadian border. You can personally verify nothing. If you could WE would have seen it.
     
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  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. What’s a dream? Filament or metal?
    I know of lots of firearms printed with this $400 unit for sale on Amazon.

    https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Crea...56dd7e851be4c&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

    Metal printing will be affordable before long...tech gets cheap fast these days. Not too long ago a filament printer was 50K.
     
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Read it carefully.
    Everything you are referring to is a dedicated printer upgrade for specific parts. It’s not a general printer. They are up to 600 K. It’s like you think you can print out safe usable firearms ? Maybe the magazines ? If you provide the other parts. Sorry, even junk that won’t stand the pressures of continuous use are very expensive. Maybe you can string together a bunch of them to shoot five rounds that then blow up in your hands.

    Please, you need to take a tour of a gun making plant. This **** can’t be duplicated at home. Gesus, even the worse crap you can buy is better then this stuff. Let me know when you shoot at a local range. I’ll avoid going that day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 3:29 AM
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  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Australia has already done it and it was not a fascist dictator who brought in the reforms but a conservative government
    https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
     
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  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You should do some research. Barrels and bolts are the only parts not commonly printed on the equipment I’ve linked to. Here is an article containing a lot of knowledge you lack.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2021/02/3d-printed-semi-automatic-rifle-fgc-9.amp


    You and your lurking sycophants here are very ignorant of firearms and firearm technologies. Of course that doesn’t stop you from bloviating and making demonstrably false statements about firearms over and over again. Everything you’ve posted so far is easily shown to be false. And other ignorant parties gobble it up and “like” it even though it’s grossly inaccurate.

    You will never see me at a range. Only been to one once and won’t ever visit one again. My shooting is almost all practical shooting—the real deal—not plinking at the range. And I know reading is hard for you, but I clearly stated I don’t print firearms. I buy top quality firearms because I need them to be 100% reliable—my livelihood and sometimes my personal safety depend on it. I’m not a gang banger that pops a few caps in someone and throws the piece off a bridge. Printed firearms are more than adequate for that purpose.

    I suggest you either educate yourself or stop posting on the subject of firearms. You are functionally illiterate on the subject. Thank goodness I don’t have to be at a range with you. Such ignorance is frightening.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 5:03 AM
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Veterinarians, farmers, and LE officers. That's how we do it, here.
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Actually the biggest impact has not been ownership because, apparently, more people own guns now than in 1996. Seemingly the biggest impact has been simply ensuring they are secured when not in use. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends safe storage

    https://www.maineaap.org/assets/resources/Safe-Storage-of-Firearms.pdf
     
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  25. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha
    So you’re now admitting about the only parts you print are the lower end composites that exist in 90% of the manufactured pistols. You’re such a kidder. You actually claim you can print a functioning firearm when you are really just printing the plastics found on a Glock et al, but without the rails and metal pieces that you have to add on with your bogus specialized several hundred dollar. Oh....and you can really churn this junk out. Like I said, take a tour of a real plant. You can’t have reliable firearms with just a computer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 8:49 AM
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