Discussion in '9/11' started by Don Townsend, Aug 31, 2014.
He already has. Pay attention.
And that theory has been proven to be true beyond all reasonable doubt to eveyone except idiotst and morons. Fact=The Sun revolves around the Earth. That is a scientifically proven fact.
Apparently math taxes you too much
For the benefit of anyone who wants to know, Please see post 264 and note that the figures quoted are from the WTC tower blueprints available off the web.
There was more open space on each face than columns,period
Please note that the first statement that kicked this whole discussion into motion was "the wall was mostly windows" and really it can not by any stretch of the imagination be considered "mostly window" because there are those spandrel plates that hold the box columns together in a group of three for assembly into the tower, + the fact that to even achieve half the space in open area, the vertical dimension would have to be 130" and that is not the case, the actual dimension between spandrel plates is less than 8', therefore by area, the open space is considerably less than half the area of the WTC tower wall.
After a considerable time of being told "do the math" at such time as I actually do it, I'm being told I'm wrong because of somebodies perception of the towers, that is mathematically proven wrong. So be it, the entire official story of 9/11/2001 falls apart under scrutiny. The fact is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any commercial airliner to have made a wing shaped gash in the side of either WTC tower much less two crashes on the same day producing that result.
I stand by what I said.your trying to weasel your way around it won't work Bob
Quote from your post # 263 ...... and my answer given in post 264 makes the statement with actual math & research into the facts here, the "mostly windows" bit has been disproved.
No.there was more open space,meaning windows, period.
after continuous unmerciful heckling from many sides here about how I wasn't providing the math for my claims, the very time that I actually prove an assertion with math and all you have is denial without any data..... great!?!?!?!?!
whatever dood, believe what you want, the figures don't lie, look up the actual data on the dimensions of the structural elements of the WTC tower wall. I have already done my homework, if you can not or will not do yours, NOT MY PROBLEM!
Hi, I'm new here and have gotten about 15 pages into this thread and I must say that I am thoroughly entertained. Just a quick question for the truthers. Can you address the events of 9/11 on a one question at a time basis? If so, first question:
Did four airliners get hijacked on 9/11 by 19 Arab men?
First off, I never even had an idea that 911 was a conspiracy, with US gov't involvement. That was crazy, tin foil hat loony tunes stuff.
After spending the last few months looking into it, I only have a grain of salt doubt left, that it was NOT an inside job. It is record that 13 nations warned us. It is record that Cheney scheduled a counter terrorism exercise 3 months in advance of 9-11. In fact, the number of coincidences involve are so highly improbable as to be impossible.
I think Cheney was one of the people that allowed this to happen, whether Pres Bush knew a thing about it or not, which I doubt. For what was Pres Bush? A brilliant mind? Hardly. This was purely a false flag operation, as we now know the Gulf of Tonkin incident was an earlier one to get us into full war mode in Vietnam, which I volunteered for, btw, being patriotic.
Cheney and the other Neo Cons, wanted to go into and destabilize the middle east, and they had the philosophy already on paper, The New American Century proposals. What they needed was a reason to do that, which now explains why we went into Iraq, and why so many lies were told to the public in regards to the involvement of Iraq in 9-11, not to mention the yellow cake uranium lies. And by allowing 9-11 to happen, this provided what they could use to go in and destabilize that part of the middle east, which has continued even under Obama.
We can no longer trust our own gov't. And fewer and fewer people do except the utterly brainwashed, the partisan ideologues who would rather fight their own fellow americans over ideology, than to go after a totally corrupt and nefarious gov't.
So, as of today I have such little doubt that 9-11 was in part an inside job, with the Saudis financing the terrorists who did the dirty work. Not that we were leading those terrorists, but that forces in gov't willfully ignored an attack that they knew was coming, using airplanes. And Cheney should be tried for treason, and executed. And anyone else that we can prove was involved. But a corrupt gov't will never allow this to happen. All that we can do, if we ever get our minds straight, is to vote all in congress out of office, and keep doing that every election cycle until we clean out that cesspool of elites. And perhaps not vote a dem or a repub back in, period. We certainly could be no worse off by cleaning out the cesspool. The People still have the power, for now, ,to correct this, to clean DC up. But you will have to see yourself not as a lib or a con, for awhile, but as an American, only.
Since I am a brand new so called Truther, and don't accept the wilder theories, yes, those were real planes, and real terrorists. But, men in high places in US gov't knew of the plan, and let it happen. See my above post as for the logic of it.
Now being a Vietnam war vet I would have fought anyone who tried to tell me that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a lie, back then. For I totally trusted my own gov't, as most people did in those days. And we could have trusted JFK, but LBJ? Not a chance in hell given that we now know, that the G of T incident was contrived, and there were no American sailors floating in that gulf from an attack on a US ship.
I have read some far out scenerios from some truthers, but some of these are plants, IMO, to make it more absurd, in order to cloud the waters. During the wall street protest, plants were inserted in with the protestors in order to stir things up, allowing the police to help crush it, turning it into something worse than it would have been. This is old hat, these tactics. It is my belief that much of the public have no clue what their gov't is doing these days. And if they did, they would vote all of these bastards out of office, if they could stop fighting the other political party voters long enough to see clearly.
The people who scoff at and deride the truthers(and not all truthers are sane) cannot handle the truth, for the situation in this nation is such that it is hard to accept that things like this could actually happen. Spend some time researching the facts around 9-11 and the vast number of what are called coincidences. Use logic and reason, and try to see through the smoke and mirrors. Discount the improbable, like some of these theories I ran across, and keep it simple. Then school yourself on what the Neo Cons wanted, what their plans were, and then think about what they needed in order to put those plans into action. You think that Neo Con think tank devoted so much time and energy, because they were bored, and liked fantasizing? Dreaming? This was a group of powerful men, an elite group who were all wealthy, and thought they were the real intellects of this nation.
I have done plenty of research on 9/11. Thanks for answering my first question.
Anyone else? Bob?
The only time to my knowledge that MSM has even been serious about this conspiracy is , on C SPAN which you can find online. Peter had Richard Gage on, and if this doesn't convince people that we don't need a real investigation on this, nothing will convince you.
When you have 2200 architects that say the evidence points to a controlled demolition of at least Bld. 7, along with what has been said on record by at least one of the people involved in the 9-11 NIST study, that this was a whitewash, and the refusal of NIST to make public essential information which is needed for future public safety, it's obvious a tremendous intentional coverup has gone on for years.
But perhaps we just cannot handle the truth.
Greetings, and to answer the question, the 19 radical hijackers story is total FRAUD. the fact is that the alleged crashes of all 4 airliners as reported in the mainstream media, demonstrate very clearly that these events are FAKE because if they were to have happened as described in the media, it would constitute a violation of the laws of physics.
not to mention .. what is up with the total disappearance of the flight data recorders & cockpit voice recorders from "FLT11" & "FLT175"?
+ WHY is it that contrary to procedure that the NTSB had followed in EVERY other airliner crash they have ever recorded, the 4 alleged airliners were never accounted for, where is the DOCUMENTATION of the post crash analysis? .... the airliners are all totally bogus!
wow .... Would you mind explaining what exactly flew into the towers? We can get to the Pentagon and Shanksville later. As I am new here, this may not post right away so I'll go make some popcorn.
Do you get the fact that I don't share your incredulity? Furthermore, 9/11 truth and 'common sense' have never met, for the idea that the government would stage hijacks and demolish ten buildings in order to invade two countries that didn't require a pretext for war is beyond stupid.
You paid to cloud things up with the statements about the airliners?
A conspiracy happened, but is not what you are pushing, IMO. We know that the gov't will plant people online, appear on You Tube, that will spin a story that is tin foil hat caliber, which makes it so outlandish as to keep many people thinking these Truthers are just fruitcakes.
You do not need to move past the Architects, the 2200, which if enough people listen to will raise so much hell as a real investigation might occur, and we get to the bottom. Learn the truth. You are not an investigator. Leave it up to the experts, to first get this investigated in an honest fashion, which will reveal the truth. You are not helping getting this investigated. Which makes you suspect.
Your gov't wouldn't stage an attack on the US navy in the gulf of Tonkin as a reason to escalate the war in Vietnam, getting 55,000 young americans killed either would they? If you listen to the hard evidence from those 2200 architects, listen to eye witness accounts that are documented, educate yourself on what took place with that 9-11 commission, and if you were capable of clear thinking, you would want an investigation into this as well to find and punish those people in gov't that allowed this attack to happen. I cannot believe any American today trusts our gov't.
A Red herring and a subject worthy of a thread in itself, for this incident has as many myths attached to it as 9/11. Furthermore, this Red Herring actually doesn't justify the ridiculous nature of the 9/11 truth premise. In addition, why would you assume that it was 'my government'?
I'm more than aware of the evidence and the arguments from Gage and all the other hucksters like Griffin, Barrett and Fetzer inter alios , and it is merely cherry picking to craft a cool story that will sell to idiots.
I'm very capable of clear and critical thinking thank you very much. I have several degrees and I am employed for my skills in logic. What I don't do is cherry pick evidence to support an illogical and assumed premise.
I do, if only to shut up the insanity that spews forth from 9/11 truth.
A scapegoat? Several scapegoats? Can you name those who should be brought to justice?
I can't believe anyone ever trusted any government, but that doesn't stop 9/11 truth from being ridiculous.
It took me until this year to give any credibility to this 9-11 deal. But all I had to do was to listen to the experts. I doubt anything would change your mind. For it's made up. Mine was too, from 01 until this year. But, I was raised up in the 50s and early 60s, back when they taught people how to think, instead of what to think. Believe what you want, doesn't matter to me. But if the truth ever comes out, and this was an inside job, I hope you have at least enough self honesty, to take note of how brainwashed you were, and could become again. Don't ever desire to be a detective. You would never solve a single crime, or get the right person.
Who did it? Besides the muslims? I will leave that up to the real investigators, if this is ever allowed to be looked into. But, I have listened to the 2200 guys, and remember a bit of physics, plus there is good video of bld 7 falling. All it takes then is logic. Now, why would I ever place trust in architects? In physics? When the impossible has been eliminated, what remains, no matter how improbable......
Here is the real deal on MY take on the subject,
I do NOT promote "the government did it" I don't care if the Symbionese Liberation Army was responsible, the facts speak for themselves.
Note the crash of "FLT175" and the airplane shaped gash in the side of the tower, very much cartoon like, doesn't it make you wonder?
The fact is that the shock of having struck a wall, whatever form that wall were to take, be it at the PENTAGON or a skyscraper wall, the airliner would encounter such resistance as to cause the aircraft to break-up and smash against the wall as a mass of rubble without creating an airplane shaped cut-out. I don't know HOW it was done, however what was done is very clear and its a magic trick, and illusion, the TV watching public has been shown a made for TV drama, passed off as a "NEWS" bit.
I have to consider the facts man. I know of at least one wife who lost her husband on that twin towers attack. She is not an actor, but a real deal widow. She say him off on that flight, and is still a widow. Her husband actually died on one of those planes that hit the towers. I know this as a hard fact.
But how anyone can watch those buildings come down, in the manner they did, especially number 7, and listen to eye witness testimonies of explosions, before the buildings came down, especially number 7 which lost its lobby before the collapse, and not see a real deal conspiracy here is astounding.
If you could account for larry silversteins movements and dealings, for the 90 days prior, IMO, this would blow the lid off.
For me, I think this was a false flag operation, that utilized an already planned attack by those radicals, and just let it happen, and then make it something even larger than it was, by bringing down all of those buildings. It had to be magnificent, in order to justify the two trillion spent in those two wars that used this attack as a reason. Guess where the two trillion goes, once you pay salaries for our military? To corporations.
Also, the neo cons who needed something to implement their New American Century plans which involved the middle east. This was the perfect reason.
The only thing is, it would have taken quite a group within gov't to pull this off. And that is the scary part of it. For this means something far greater than just that one false flag operation. It means we are being ruled over by evil men on par with Stalin and Hitler.
And we need to remember one thing. There was a coup planned, along with the assassination of FDR, by a group of elites, who would have pulled it off, except for one single man, Gen Smedley Butler, who after he was approached to be involved, went to congress and squealed. This is a fact in history, so the poster here who doesn't believe we have men in gov't and the private sector who would not do such a thing, needs a reality check.
Separate names with a comma.