I'm worried about availability of vaccines

This would be valid if this disease were only measured by its risk of death, that is, if ALL survivors came out of it with NO organ damage or sequelae whatsoever, which is DEFINETLY not the case. Even young people, for example, can come out of it with silent myocarditis, of the kind that predisposes to heart failure down the road, and curtails life expectancy.

Not only that, but aggressive viruses like this one can be quite unpredictable in their long-term consequences. See, we haven't been able to figure out yet, the long term consequences because this disease has only existed for a little over one year.

Take the Epstein-Barr virus, for example. It was initially deemed benign, given that in its acute phase, it cause death extremely rarely, with just a few cases of imprudent people who did not observe the recommended rest while they had inflamed and enlarged spleen, causing the rupture of the organ and internal hemorrhage - but the overwhelming majority of people recovered from the acute infection APPARENTLY with no sequelae whatsoever. Until, oh oops, it was demonstrated that the Epstein-Barr virus remained dormant and years later, caused Hodgkin's and non-Hodgkin's lymphomas (in addition to a list of some 8 other dangerous auto-immune diseases), which are forms of lethal cancers.

 

Good point CF. I would ask, is Covid really a new virus, surely its just another in the Sars Covid viruses which are well known.
Or does it in your opinion have significant differences?
After all we don't give everyone the various flu vaccines every year.

 

It belongs to the family. But when it mutated from a animal virus to a virus infecting humans, it changed dramatically.
It is a Sars Covid, which made early testing so problematic, because many people have been in contact with some SARS Covid.
You have to find the specific markers of this virus and than narrow your test down to them.
The protein which builds the outer shell of the virus is different from all other SARS Covid, that's why out immune system can not fight it, even if it has been exposed to a SARS before.
But that is so to speak its weak point, which vaccines target. If your body knows the protein it can attack the building block of the outer shell.

Most SARS continued to mutate into a direction were they became harmless.
c19 has mutated into 3 mayor strains, but it stayed as aggressive and dangerous and you can even get reinfection with a other strain, mostly very mild outcome. Speaks for the vaccines.
C19 is a very new virus, of a family of viruses.

 

Thanks Gnoib, I knew this, but I my question was relating specifically to CFs point about unknown long term effects.

 

The SARS-CoV-2, the agent of the disease known as Covid-19, belongs to the family of coronaviruses, but this specific member of the family is new (it is speculated that it was originally in bats, and jumped species to humans). It shares genomic sequences at a rate of about 96% with other coronaviruses, which is about the rate with which we humans differ from chimpanzees. So while we are all primates, we act very differently from chimpanzees and have different capacities.

The SARS-CoV-2 does not behave the same way in infected individuals as other members of the Coronavirus family. It seems to have a predilection for attacking endothelial cells (the inner layer of blood vessels) and heart muscle cells. This issue of endothelial cells makes its attack on the lungs quite different from what we saw with the first SARS coronavirus. While the SARS-CoV-2 is less lethal than the first SARS, it seems to be richer in late complications. And of course it is much more aggressive than the coronaviruses responsible for the common cold (20% of common colds are caused by coronaviruses).

So, the analogy here is that we share with other animals the primates family, but while we may not have reasons to fear our primate cousin who is a small and cute monkey (the common cold coronaviruses) we have reasons to fear another one of our primate cousins, an angry wild large gorilla (the SARS-CoV-2). We may not really need to contain and stop the cute little monkey but we may want to call Animal Control about the angry wild large gorilla, if it invades our habitat. While the cute little monkey can't kill us, the angry wild large gorilla can.

"We don't give everyone the flu vaccine": well, we try. We offer it. Half of the American population unfortunately doesn't want it.

But make no mistake, the SARS-CoV-2 is much more aggressive than seasonal influenza virus; more lethal, more contagious, and with more long-term consequences, which is why it is so important to have good vaccines against the SARS-CoV-2, and accept them.

 

CF. Very good analogy and good explanation.
Thank you for taking the time to go into such detail.
I now fully agree.
FYI. Here in the UK we only give the flu vaccine to the over 65's or those in vulnerable groups.

 

Small Pox, a virus, was eradicated 40 years ago because there was a successful global push to get everyone vaccinated
Polio, a virus, was nearly eradicated by the WHO but it still exists in the wild in two places because people there refused the vaccine out of suspicion. That scourge would be gone but for the refusal of people to get vaccinated.
People who elect not to get vaccinated for covid are not making a personal choice but rather one that affects everyone. There is no guarantee that a global vaccination will eliminate covid but it might, and it is a guarantee that if too many remain unvaccinated it won't be eliminated.
Maybe you aren't concerned for yourself but you can still be a host, creator and distributor if you refuse a vaccine. You can still kill others and you can still cause a shutdown.

Hopefully after the narcissism is Washington drops to a memory it will become second nature for all to get vaccinated.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone wore their masks in public and we wouldn't need lock downs and out hospitals wouldn't be overflowing?
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone globally got vaccinated and Covid would be gone and we wouldn't need masks anymore?

 

Yes, it would be like we're in heaven.

 

Actually, the people who elect not to get vaccinated for the WuFlu are not making a choice that affects everyone, because 1) you can't guarantee that those people will catch the virus much less transmit it to others and 2) everyone doesn't come into contact with everyone, so I'm not concerned with the fear-mongering and junk science that you and others are peddling here and elsewhere.

Furthermore, pertinent to the topic of this thread - the limited availability of the vaccines - I'm perfectly content to abstain from getting vaccinated so that the high risk individuals and populations living in high risk areas who need to be prioritized over myself get vaccinated. If there is any vaccine left after that point I'll consult the advice of local officials and health professionals and then make a decision whether or not it is necessary to get vaccinated. I won't be consulting the fear-mongering of anonymous Leftists posting on Internet discussion forums.

 

A Safe Space for every boy and girl.

No more chalkenings, no more cow farts...a happy place, with flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles...

 

What bizarre argument. That because you might not come into contact with a vulnerable person or might not infect them, you are therefore not effecting them.

Well I ignore speed limits, because I might not come into contact with pedestrians and if I do I might not injure them.
And you have no guarantee that I will speed.
Very odd.

 

I was going to answer that convoluted diatribe but when the argument starts with science can't guarantee a victory there's no reason to try there's no point continuing the discussion.
Hopefully after a time with a president who respects science instead of maligns it enough will come on board to win the fight rather than prolonging it

 

I find it bizarre that you or anyone else thinks that you can establish that 1) I will contract the WuFlu if I don't get vaccinated and 2) that I am some omnipresent entity that is capable of coming into contact with everyone.

Go ahead and try. You can't.

While you're prancing down the path of the fear-mongerers and junk scientists who pretend they can establish the impossible, perhaps you and the poster who beclowned his avatar would care to address my comments about prioritizing the needs of high risk individuals and populations in high risk areas over low risk individuals and populations in low risk areas and who people should consult after the high risk demographic is immunized, assuming there are any vaccines left - local officials and health professionals or anonymous Leftist fear-mongerers posting on Internet discussion forums?

 

The vaccine is the modern day equivalent of snake oil products.

However snake oil salesmen never had the government grant them immunity for their products.

 

Talon. You are clearly incapable of reasoned thought. The reason we have speed limits is NOT because we KNOW you WILL speed but because you MIGHT speed.
The same logic applies to taking the vaccine,

 

Thanks for that scientific update.

 

It's not really science. It is simply common sense based upon patterns of behavior over time.

 

It certainly isn't science, that much is true. Common sense should be based on experience and as far as I know, no snake oil sales man ever spent millions developing a medicine to save millions of lives.
Nor do they tend to get their products tested by independent authorities.
Frankly I doubt your common sense.

 

The Moderna vaccine has just been granted the EUA by the FDA.
And the good news is that we did successfully negotiate with them for another 100 million doses. So among the Pfizer and the Moderna we will be able to immunize 150 million Americans. That's better. Then hopefully we'll get by February, the AstraZeneca (if they solve their hurdles) and the J&J. That would give us enough for another 200 million Americans. The key here, is to watch the AstraZeneca. If they are good enough, then our problem will be solved given that we have ordered 300 million doses from them and they are the company with the highest production capacity (at least temporarily solved... we don't know for long the immunity will last, and we don't know how many people will accept the vaccine).

 

What's happened to the vaccine in the UK?
Our news is devoid of daily updates of who has received it. in the last 2 weeks we hear 137,000 have had the vaccine. At this rate it will take 9.8 years to vaccinate everyone.
There are hints that ONCE AGAIN the IT system is failing. Why wasn't this written and tested months ago

Let me know how it goes your side of the pond please.

 

Two healthcare workers in Scotland suffered severe allergic reactions to the vaccine. One in Alaska did too. Another one in Alaska had a concerning, but short lived and milder reaction. That's it, so far. Yes, the roll out has been somewhat slow. I hope the pace will pick up soon.

 

I completely agree that it is not just about death. It is the fact that hospitals are filling to the point of bursting in some areas. If you happen to live in a hot spot and get into a serious car accident, there is no ICU bed for you. Attention to your situation is significantly less, due to strained space and resources. And it is also about those with permanent lung and heart damage and those who have strokes and neurological damage leading to chronic weakness and loss of coordination. At this point, I know several people from several countries who have had covid, but none have died. They are all anxious about the future of their health.

 

The reactions were expected. Both health care workers in Scotland had high allergic reactions to everything. Both carried epi pens.
Both are OK.

 

The Alaska lady with the reaction had no prior history of allergies. But sure, it happens.