Impeachment now or Elections in November?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you read this post, you will learn why the argument "wait until the elections to remove Trump" (and similar) was unacceptable to the framers. Especially for the particular articles for which Trump has been Impeached.

    I think that when the House chose to write only two Articles of Impeachment they had in mind the testimony of Profesor Noah Feldman before the House Intelligence Committee

    https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ukraine-clearinghouse-FeldmanP-20191204.pdf

    Professor Feldman explains why the framers would have opposed the Republican argument "Wait until the elections in november to remove him".

    On July 20, 1878, while discussing the topic of Impeachment, Charles Pinckney of South Carolina and Gouverneur Morris, representing Pennsylvania both moved to remove Impeachment of the President. Morris stated exactly what Republicans are saying: that the need for re-election would be enough to keep the President from abusing power.

    William Richardson Davie of North Carolina immediately disagreed. If the president could not be impeached, Davie said, “he will spare no efforts or means whatever to get himself re-elected.”

    George Mason also expressed concern about the threat the President would pose to the Electoral System

    He went on to say that presidential electors were in danger of “being corrupted by the Candidates.” This danger, he said, “furnished a peculiar reason in favor of impeachments whilst in office. Shall the man who has practised corruption & by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment, by repeating his guilt?
    And when Benjamin Franklin spoke, Governor Morris immediately expressed he had changed his mind.

    Finally, it's James Madison who provides the death blow to today's Republicans

    He [Madison] insisted that it was “indispensable that some provision should be made for defending the Community against the incapacity, negligence or perfidy of the chief Magistrate.” Standing for reelection “was not a sufficient security.” The president, Madison said, “might lose his capacity after his appointment. He might pervert his administration into a scheme of peculation or oppression. He might betray his trust to foreign powers.” And if the president lost his capacity or acted corruptly, Madison concluded, that “might be fatal to the Republic.”
    Again, Professor Feldman's testimony can be seen here

    https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ukraine-clearinghouse-FeldmanP-20191204.pdf

    And the records here

    https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/farrand-the-records-of-the-federal-convention-of-1787-vol-1

     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Dey gonna unseat Trump...

    ... an' den we gonna have to have an election...

    ... an' the Donald gonna have to run all over again...

    ... where's Hillary?
     
  3. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The most persuasive argument for waiting on election is the divisiveness. No matter what the results from the impeachment, one side is going to be extremely unhappy because they think the results were wrong. That will likely happen in an election, but at least we know had a part to play in the results rather than just having to watch this sorry mess.
     
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I guess the framers were only prophetic about criminal politicians. Not about anybody else.
     
  5. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Who cares, Trump will be acquitted and re-elected in November. The Dems may never recover.
     
    Blaster3 likes this.

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