All I know is a person in Wales gets £1,000 pounds a year more than a person in England. That's about 20 quid a week.
I won't say where I'm from, but don't make assumtions of my own background. I understand that Wales is poorly funded, I don't blame you for wanting independence, but the North of England is hardly well looked after. Sympthy I have little of, empathy yes. But it is still not the responsibility of English people to pay for any services of newly independent nations from the Union. Playing the "ohhh poor us" card, will get you little from the rest of us who were brought up during the strikes, in the (*)(*)(*)(*)ty north. I'm sorry, its just the case.
I was hoping you remembered Julie London -- right up there , although not quite in the Ella and Sazzy Vaughan class . Instead you are clearly referring to Redcar which is worth exporting to Scootty Land before they win independence .
You could just about make a case for that POV re the stateless refugees, moon...but not for those who are living outside the various refugee camps unless of course, you sublimate logic and commonsense to Hamas dogma. (And good luck in getting Israel's permission to send voting papers to Israeli Palestinians.) Imo, the concept that anyone of Palestinian descent has the right to decide the fate of the Palestinians who have kept the whole horrible situation of the Palestinian people on the international political agenda, by not buggering off to a better life...simply makes those who stayed and suffered bloody stupid fools....doesn't it? After all, they could all have done the same, handed the West Bank and Gaza over to the Israelis on a silver salver....and be living where they are not so viciously oppressed, as so many have done...but those who stayed had the courage of their convictions, and have suffered since 1948 in ways the rest of us, including the Palestinians living elsewhere, can only imagine. And what is their reward going to be for hanging in there and taking all the sh1t Israel has been throwing at them on behalf of the Palestinians living it up in America, and elsewhere in the world? Why, as far as you are concerned, their reward is going to be allowing people who have buggered off to safety, some of them for the last 60 years, to decide if they are going to be allowed to live in peace in the land they have clung to through thick and thin since the Zionists arrived. Fair, moral and democratic political dogma...I don't think so. But, heck....that is what Hamas has decided, so it must be right.....very much the Unionist mindset, in fact. I have also said earlier in this thread....However, maybe I do cynicism to the point of a mental problem.....but I read the Palestinian refugee diaspora has not been consulted on Palestine's future. That must change- as Hamas has indicated it will..as Hamas believing that there are enough pro Hamas votes in the diaspora to ensure that what Hamas don't want will get voted out..by people who no longer live in the West Bank or Gaza.
This is about Independence for some of our northern settler friends ( spit) but there are knob heads here who can't stop gabbling on about Pakistan --- no , Palestine -- like demented fleas on a clean cat . What exactly are the links between the Salmon , Abbas , Hamas and Rangers ?
It's not for anybody else to judge why some Palestinians no longer live in Palestine- but the refugees CANNOT live in Palestine. Quite clearly, when a Palestinian referendum comes they are all going to vote for the motion which allows them back into their homeland. That just happens to coincide with the Hamas policy. Good. That's another five million Hamas supporters resisting neoZionist brutality and theft. As I said though, there are no equivalent Scottish refugees. Ex-pat Scots abound and their vote AS SCOTTISH NATIONALS must be counted.
There aren't five million refugees....there may be five million people living outside the West Bank and Gaza..but a fair proportion of them are now Palestinian in the same way as Beevee is British......as a concept from afar, which permits pontification, but does not entail consequences. I have said I can see some merit in giving a vote to those in refugee camps who are stateless....but not to those who live in the USA, Chile etc andhave citizenship and lives. Excuse me, but ex-pats who become citizens of another country are of Scottish origin, but no longer Scottish Nationals.....so their votes must not be counted. What gives them the right to tell those of us who live here what our future is going to be.....bar that you have a weird concept of democracy. In the Scottish Parliament, in January this year, Bruce Crawford, the Government minister for Strategy said that the principle that referenda should be determined by residency was "internationally accepted and that principle is accepted by international organisations that are charged with monitoring referendums. As other members have said, it was adopted for the referendum in Montenegro in 2006 and, closer to home, for the referendum in Wales in 2011. That approach is also consistent with the franchise that was used in Scotland in 1997 for the devolution referendum. During the parliamentary stages of the 1997 Referendums (Scotland and Wales) Bill, Donald Dewar made clear the Labour Party’s view that the local government franchise “most nearly accords with the residency test, which we believe is the proper way to decide someone’s eligibility to vote.”—[Official Report, House of Commons, 21 May 1997; Vol 294, c 728.] We see no reason to depart from that precedent or from international principle in relation to the franchise for the 2014 referendum. And nor do I...not even if every one of them swore on their mother's lives that they would vote for Independence if allowed to vote........because that is not democracy...it is a heap of people thinking there is no show without Punch. Democracy is those who will be affected voting for or against the proposition.because only they are going to suffer the consequences of that decision..not somebody sitting down in London, lying around in the Australian sun or swanning about Thailand.
As far as I can tell - "Scots who live " there are'nt in total agreement . SOME are for the idea and SOME are'nt ? Or are you talking for all Scots ? I doubt whether they care much what you think . wot ? I've no object whatsoever in the concept of "One man/woman " (Adults ) = one vote . However I would question why Alex Salmond would now want 16 yr old's to vote , when 16yr old's were NOT allowed to vote in the last Scottish election. ????? btw - are you aware that many people in the world have DUAL NATIONALITY ? In which case , why should they be denied a voice ? ... ...
Dear Oddquine , would you deny voteing rights to true born Scots who've for various reasons, . recently , say past 10-20 yrs , who've moved/relocated , south of the border ? in Cumbria/Northumberland/Yorkshire ? Where would you ( OR more to the point, your leader - Alex Salmon) draw the line of a Scotsman's right to vote ? ....
Of course they aren't...and nobody has ever claimed they did. I certainly haven't. I would assume they care as little about what I think as I care what they think.....or what you think come to that, if you care to call it thinking! Not a chance of that, I shouldn't think...the SNP have been talking about extending the franchise for a few years now...but they can't do it because the franchise and elections etc are restricted to the UK Parliament, and specifically Scottish elections are mandated to be run under UK rules. But 16 year olds are legally adults in Scotland, you know. If they live in Scotland they won't be denied anything...if they don't they can have all the nationalities they like......but it won't make any difference..........that's the law....as set out by the UK Parliament.
Yep....just as I'd deny it to my cousin who lives in Cheshire.....and all my other relations who live outside Scotland..and there are a lot of them. The line is drawn where the UK Government drew it in the Scotland Act. I suggest you read it...I have. Btw......Alex Salmond isn't my "leader"........he is the First Minister of my country, in a Government elected on a vote of the Scottish people which was believed to be an impossibilty! I am an SNP voter...not an SNP party member....and what I will vote after Independence remains to be seen. If the Scottish Lib-Dems grow a set of balls among them......I may even go for them.
Not totally , there are certain exceptions i.e. purchase of r alcohol etc. BUT more important , WOULD YOU DENY that 16 yr olds were NOT allowed to vote in last scottish election, ? So , why is Alex Salmon trying to let them vote his referendum ? IMO - it sounds like exploiting young/immature impressionable minds , much as a less sophisticated Adolf did in the last century. ...
You sound as if you are vilifying travellers- which is a nonsense. People should be free to go where they will- without fear of being stripped of their nationality by less venturous Hobbits. Again, birthright should be the primary factor in determining nationality. I haven't seen any argument which deflects that belief. Those of Scottish birth who find themselves disenfranchised should raise hell until their rights are recognized. The five million in the Palestinian refugee diaspora are legally recognized as refugees.
Boozing doesn't make you an adult..most adults prove that...but 16 year olds can buy and consume beer, wine or cider in a restaurant with a meal, if the manager is OK with it. However...being able to sign legally binding contracts does make you an adult.....so Scottish 16 year olds are adults.
Yes, they are. They have different adult requirements to octogenarian adults , but they are adults nonetheless.
Look, moon, if that's what you think will work for the Palestinians....then good luck to you..but kindly stop continually trolling on the same subject.....when there is no way, even if they wanted to do it, that a Scottish Government could let anyone but those on the voting register vote in a referendum. Nobody living furth of Scotland is a refugee with the status of Palestinians....so why you brought the Palestinian refugee problem into the thread at all beats me. I have quoted you the relevant points re the Scottish situation....and if you choose to ignore them, then do so...but I won't be repeating myself any more on a subject which is nothing but pie in the sky, and completely pointless. The UK has spoken....or at least it did in 1997 at the time of devolution..and until/if we get independence that situation isn't going to be changing at all. Capisce?
I just mentioned Palestine in passing. You've been attempting to hammer out a malformed analogy ever since. Bad rules are subject to change. It would only take the combined will of disenfranchised Scots to enable Scotsmen to vote in their own referendum Now you're agreeing with me. No, I haven't ignored them. It's only you that has attempted to define what a ' Scot '- for the purposes of the referendum- might be. We simply disagree on the scale of Scotland. For me, Scotland exists outside of the country's borders- in the hearts of the Scottish-born, perhaps even their descendants. Sure. Sod the UK. That's what this is all about.
Seek independence for Scotland as soon as possible. Then leave the EU. If you want to preserve your national identity you would be advised to keep out the waves of asylum seekers that have already flooded into England. Because there really is not much point in separating from the UK if your country will end up as a mix ethnically and culturally identical to that in the south within a 100 years, much like many quarters of London are today.
FYI - its too late - there's already a Helluva lot of "asylum seekers"/immigrants - Asians/Poles /Romanians etc. all over SCOTCH-Land . btw see MSP Humza Yousaf SNP representative : including a few less prominant members . http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msps/currentmsps/Humza-Yousaf-MSP.aspx ....
They didn't get to vote in the last election because the UK doesn't allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in elections. It is really quite simple and straightforward. Alex Salmond can produce any franchise wish lists he likes.....but it will take a vote in the UK Parliament to amend at least the Scotland Act to make it actually happen...as you can't vote unless you are both registered and at least 18 on the day of the election. He has been talking about it for a year or two now...and it is no nearer happening, because the UK Parliament aren't biting. Though, if he has nothing much else to do between now and 2014, he could have a go at setting up semi-official voting facilities in schools for them and letting them have a vote. It won't count in the actual referendum......but it would be interesting to see what they think.
