If the universe itself were dead (or even dying), a case could be made that "God is dead", but it isn't. Look outside your window. Are all the trees, grass, bushes, and weeds dying? Are there no baby animals, baby birds, and baby humans being born? Etc. etc., etc. Who among us can look out every day and night at ALL THIS -- a universe so vast and recurringly complex that no one can even make an intelligent guess at how big it is, how long it has been in existence, or what it is here for, or for how long, and say flatly, "There is no God!", or, surmise that somehow God is dead...?
You seem to be asserting that the universe is God. If you define "God" as something that exists apart from or above the universe, your argument has no merit.
Actually, scientists have made some intelligent guesses on how big the universe is and how long it has been in existence. The observable universe is 13.8 billion years old which means that the oldest stars we can see are 13.8 billion light years away. As for what we are here for, that is a question for philosophers and theologians and I only deal with science.
I understand. You deal only in facts. Good. Where is your proof of anything you have said...? The "observable universe is 13.8 billion years old"? You may be right. And your proof is... what? If you reject an existential, subjective viewpoint, and if you dismiss even empirical subjectivity then, indeed, there couldn't be anything left but fact-based proof -- which is capable of standing on its own, without "assumptions", right? Good! What are your facts? How long has the universe been here? How long will it last? How big is it? Got any facts to enlighten us with regarding these questions...?
Where did I say that the universe is (per se) God? Where, for that matter, did I postulate that the universe is disconnected from God?
No, just hasn't revealed himself to people too absorbed into worldly things. Maybe the question we should look into is what causes Godly people to have so much faith?
Sorry, I thought you were the person who said (in post #2) that God cannot be dead (or dying) since the universe is not dead (or dying). This seems to imply that one is equal to the other. If not, please demonstrate how the fact that the universe does not appear to be dying has anything to do with whether God is dead. By all means, feel free to take a position... Do you define "God" as equal to the universe (as your previous post seemed to indicate), or do you believe He/She/It is something that exists apart from His/Her/It's alleged creation?
Well, without getting too much into the math and physics involved, the easy answer is that because the farthest star we can see is 13.8 billion light years away and it takes 13.8 billion years for that light to reach us, we know that those stars had to exist at least 13.8 billion years ago, or the light would not have reached us yet.
I said that if the universe (irrefutable evidence that something was created by someone) were dead or dying, then a case could be made that God is dead (or dying). If (IF) one "takes the position" that the universe (i.e., all of creation) is animated and lives through God, then it follows that if God is dying or dead, then the universe would also be dying or dead. Go look out your window, or through your telescope... what do you see? Death? Hint: you may have "too much time on your hands"... a common trait among many who post here.... No, no, no! You're a fact-based, logical person who eschews subjectivity, relegating all such subjective speculation to the realms of conjecture and didactic philosophies. You must, therefore, get WAY much "into the math and physics involved". Please, then, put forth your theses in the very most factual orientation imaginable, taking care to include mathematics and physics. I will be able to follow along.... I would especially appreciate your tutelage on such mundane considerations as, say, the age of the universe, how large it actually is, how long it will last. You know... piddly stuff like that. Maybe somebody's developed an "app" for that...?
I'm sorry but I'm just don't have the time to teach you 100 years of physics in a post, especially on a political Internet forum. If you would like learn this stuff, there are many books out there on the subject. You can also sign up for classes at your local community college.
So, instead of defending your position, all you can do is "crawfish" away while casting veiled insults at me. I'll respond by admitting that although I did take my Bachelor of Science degree from the University of Texas at Austin, cum laude, I did at one point make a "C" in Physics. There. You feel better? Be happy in the certainty, then, that for you there is no God, and that if there was one, he must surely be dead. There was a song about 20 years ago I'll bet you'd like, by a Brooklyn group called Type-O Negative... it was called "Everyone I Love is Dead". Cheers!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpQw5WdkL7g
Actually, I never said there are no Gods. I just said that scientists have made intelligent guesses for the age and size of the universe then I showed the most obvious way they figured this out. If you know another way light from 13.8 billion light years away can reach us now if the universe was less than 13.8 billion years old, I would love to hear it.
the gods are dead if they decide to be dead, but they can be both dead and alive - or neither - because they are gods and, as gods, can do such things Meanwhile,for sublunary denizen, here is my poem: "God is Dead," the obituary said. Well, for heaven's sake, An eternal, Irish wake! That was my poem. - whilst having my Guinness.
That is an "IF" of significant size. It is entirely reasonable to believe that the universe (i.e., all of "creation") operates independently of any supernatural power - even if one chooses to believe that there is/was a "divine creator".
But the universe is god. All is 1. We are nothing but finite combonations of an infinate energy. Everything has an entrence, an exit, and we all get to expeariance a stupid story told by a drunkard. like an old dude in the clouds that got some chest pains and recently went to the ER? Hasn't been seen since...
Although the ideas of man can sometimes take on a life of their own, ultimately ideas are not alive so they cannot be dead and God is one of the oldest ideas man still carries with him.
By saying there is "irrefutable evidence that something was created by someone", you are implying that there is "irrefutable evidence" of an intelligent creator. Please clarify.
OK, in deference to your wholly "natural sciences" approach, let's forget all about this "divine creator" thing. I don't need you throwing that in my face when I didn't say that. Instead, let me yield the floor and ask that you tell us where all THIS came from, if it was/is not a manifestation of some kind of creative entity. It doesn't have to be some anthropomorphic "father-god" -- but it's got to be something... or is all this a product of our imagination...? Is it "scientific" to merely conjecture that, all of a sudden, for no particular reason, all of this just -- POOF! -- appeared, all at once? Perhaps before we can respond to a thread topic like, "Is God dead", we must first ask "Is/Was God?" So, then forget about God, if you like... but please tell us where all THIS came from if not from some kind of creative intelligence/force. "I am reality. Everything else is illusion."
Formation of "this" has been largely outlined (with some minor variations in theories), but only back to the moment of "creation" - the Big Bang. If you are asking what caused the Big Bang (ie: what existed before it), the answer is simply "I/we don't know". Not knowing something does not justify leaping to the most unlikely of explanations and declaring that answer to be "fact" until disproven (as theists tend to do). It is entirely reasonable to believe that something existed without believing that the something is a omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent, male figure who punishes wrongful action on macro scale while rewarding "goodness" on an individual level. This description fits the term "God" as used by most folks from Western cultures (including most folks on this forum).
