Dismiss Notice
Thanks for being a member of our community. Please donate toward site expenses if you can.

Is Hell a Matter of Choice?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Wolverine, Aug 15, 2012.

Page 2 of 3
  1. Prof_Sarcastic

    Prof_Sarcastic New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's a pretty poor analogy, but poor analogies do not a strawman make.
     
    Prof_Sarcastic, Aug 20, 2012
    #26
  2. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Those Christians believe they are "true Christians" just as strongly as you do. The No True Scottsman really doesn't have a place here.
     
    Wolverine, Aug 20, 2012
    #27
  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,828
    Likes Received:
    27,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What was there to 'wreck' in the first place? I'd rather have people expounding and following a "feel good gospel" than what basically amounts to the American Taliban - people who will murder abortion doctors, create religiously inspired laws and just preach and perpetrate hatred toward any and all who disagree with them.
     
    Durandal, Aug 20, 2012
    #28
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    57,502
    Likes Received:
    17,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Unless God chooses to act hell is the ultimate destination of all humanity. It is a place of absolute, ultimate justice. The ehat is merely a distraction form far worse things, self inflicted things.


    Yeah leftist jerks can be real kill joys. I know of no mainstream church calling for the murder of abortionists. Which religiously inpired laws do you object to? Thou shalt not rob? Thou shalt not murder?
     
    garyd, Aug 21, 2012
    #29
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    151,216
    Likes Received:
    63,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it means one would hope a god would be better then a abusive father that burns his child in the basement for not believing in him even though he was a absentee dad and has show the boy no proof of his being his father
     
    FreshAir, Aug 21, 2012
    #30
  6. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's more a matter of default...

    ... go with the default way of the world...

    ... and yer liable to end up goin' through the 'wide gate'.
    :shock:
     
    waltky, Aug 21, 2012
    #31
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,828
    Likes Received:
    27,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Criminalisation and persecution of people for what they do in their bedrooms, denying non-Christians and other targeted groups civil rights, etc.

    I don't know how many churches feature preachers calling for the murder of abortion doctors, but I do know that plenty of Christians seem plenty rabid about battling what they view as murder, and there has been violence against both doctors and their clinics.
     
    Durandal, Aug 21, 2012
    #32
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,828
    Likes Received:
    27,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The default, huh? Just how small is your world, anyway?
     
    Durandal, Aug 21, 2012
    #33
  9. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And where did I support any of the things you're saying????
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #34
  10. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Did I say "true" christian???
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #35
  11. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You need "fresh air", as I've already answered this objection.
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #36
  12. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of the people I named, which of them has advocated violence against sinners?
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #37
  13. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That was the argument being made.
     
    Wolverine, Aug 21, 2012
    #38
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So it is your opinion that we can choose to sin or NOT to sin? Funny, I thought every man has to sin. It is why there was Jesus. Because man can NOT not sin, God sent himself to earth to free us from sin.
    Why did God create man?
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #39
  15. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No thats the arguement you assume was being made. I'm merely saying that I'm not that type of christian.
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #40
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which christian religions isn't God the Father of Everything? That is what my religion teaches.
    And it is true, if you don't believe in Jesus as the savior of mankind, you will go to hell. Which christian religion teaches otherwise?
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #41
  17. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did Jesus not say "you are of your father the devil"?

    Why do we need salvation?
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #42
  18. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So all of modern christianity has it wrong? Even from the beginning of the catholic church? God is not the father of man, the devil, satan, is the father of man? Based on what?

    I don't know why we need salvation.

    I'm curious now, which religion is your religion?
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #43
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    John 8:41 You are doing the things your own father does." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #44
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.


    So it seems not all of mankind is the son of the devil?
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #45
  21. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When you're saved you're grafted into the family of God. The reason you need salvation is because you're first nature is rebellion against God. We are born in bondage to sin, dead in our trangressions. Its only through the saving grace of Jesus Christ that we are saved from Hell. By submitting to Christ, he become a propitiation for our sins. He is the atoning sacrifice, just as the jews sacrificed lambs for atonement, Jesus is the lamb that takes away our sin. He is the final sacrifice.
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #46
  22. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    16,105
    Likes Received:
    234
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are drawing a distiction between God based Christianity (true Christians) and man based Christianity (if not "false Christians, then what?) And substantiate the claim that so and so and so and so would never subscribe to todays Christianity.

    So if not the No True Scottsman, what argument are you making?
     
    Wolverine, Aug 21, 2012
    #47
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    79,119
    Likes Received:
    19,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    0
    But we are not saved until we die and the judgement day comes? So we don't know if we are save or not.
     
    dairyair, Aug 21, 2012
    #48
  24. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Therefore there is no condemnation for those in Christ jesus, and you're saved by grace through faith. Those in ephesians and romans, clearly point to a salvation while on earth, and going on later to be glorified in Heaven.
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #49
  25. elijah

    elijah New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,173
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've never said they're false christians because I don't know their heart. I can't stand in judgement of their christianity, but a lot of christians glorify themselves while others glorify God. I happen to fall in to the latter category.
     
    elijah, Aug 21, 2012
    #50
Page 2 of 3

Share This Page