Is the "Fiscal Cliff Deal" better or worse than actually going over the cliff

fightinfalc16 · Jan 3, 2013

Hi everyone first post,

I have been reading a ton on the "fiscal cliff deal" and not sure what to think if it is a better or worse deal than actually going over the cliff; Having the sequestration and expiring tax cuts for all.

There are lots of different views and I would like to hear them all, Thanks.

waltky · Jan 7, 2013

Granny says dey gonna downgrade our credit rating - again...

Budget Stand-off Could Again Impact US Credit Rating
January 06, 2013 WASHINGTON Republican lawmakers are not ruling out using Americas debt limit as a bargaining chip in looming deficit reduction battles with congressional Democrats and the Obama administration. A similar partisan dynamic in 2011 led to a downgrade of the nations credit rating.

A new year and the swearing in of a new Congress have not erased familiar battle lines between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to reining in Americas runaway national debt. The Senates top Republican, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, appeared on numerous U.S. television programs Sunday. He repeatedly was asked if his party will link raising the federal governments borrowing limit to deep spending cuts. This was his response on CBS Face the Nation program. What I am willing to say is, if the president will not lead us in the direction of reducing this massive spending addiction that we have, then we have to use whatever leverage we have. And there are some examples of leverage coming along. The debt ceiling is one of them," he said.

Failure to grant additional borrowing authority could cause the federal government to run out of funds in coming months, and could shake global confidence in U.S. credit worthiness. As in 2011, many Republicans today are demanding a dollar in spending cuts for every dollar increase in the debt ceiling. But unlike two years ago, President Barack Obama says he will not bargain over the debt limit - a stance that all but dares Republicans to follow through on a threat that economists warn could inflict massive damage to the U.S. and global economy.

Democrats, like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, point out that a higher debt ceiling is required to cover spending Congress already approved. She argues it is a separate issue from looming budget battles over future federal spending. Right now we have to pay the bill that has been incurred. If you want to cut spending for what we do next, [that is] fine. But you cannot say, I am not paying the past debt," she said. Republicans counter that absent dire consequences for inaction Congress will never agree to the painful spending cuts and reforms required to solve Americas fiscal woes. Democrats point out they have already voted in favor of more than $1 trillion in federal spending cuts. President Obama has said he is open to reforming costly programs that provide health care and other benefits to retirees.

Last week, Congress approved a measure to avert automatic tax hikes and delay deep spending cuts mandated under the so-called fiscal cliff." The last-minute deal raised income tax rates for top earners. President Obama says a mix of spending cuts and additional revenues will be needed to reduce Americas trillion-dollar federal deficit. Republicans say taxes have already been dealt with, and debt-reduction efforts must now focus on spending alone.

Source
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Xanadu · Jan 7, 2013

'Fiscal cliff' followed by a 'fiscal cliff deal', was clearly another revolutionary wave of fear by the system (system plays 'chess' with the masses to try to get them under their control) This fiscal cliff was capitalism based fear mongering. Falls in the same row as 'credit crisis' and the 'housing crisis'. They cause more financial-economic-job problems, all revolutionary (via fear they keep the masses busy, and with their backs against the wall)
Since the year 2000 an ongoing tsunami of fear came, they keep pushing on and on. They keep continue with their revolutionary strategies, tricks, tactics, sets. Slowly but surely they push their ideology/process forward. They push more and more people into their revolution (a growing revolutionary crowd means more people fighting the system in the wrong way, fighting the system in advantage of the system, because it's revolutionary)
Same is done to the Egyptian people, they pushed a new constitution through and only thirty percent voted for this constitution, means a majority is against. This is how they try to bring the masses into motion, causing a revolution in the masses (bring them in a fight against the things they do not want, they drag you into their fight, cause revolution by doing this)
Yes, this fiscal cliff deal is 'better' than going over the cliff (because it was an addition to the other fear mongering that is going on since Y2K, the first fear period that pushed the world into this post 1999 neo world)

waltky · Feb 7, 2013

It's a swing anna miss...

Obama Batting at the Mendoza Line When It Comes to Budgeting
February 6, 2013 House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) says President Barack Obama has once again failed in his duty to present his budget plan before the deadline set by Congress. Hes met the deadline only once in the last five years.

With our $1 trillion deficits, the one thing the American public expects is a budget, McCarthy told reporters on Capitol Hill Tuesday. The Budget [and] Accounting Act of 1921 requires that the president submit a budget on the first Monday of February. Hes had five opportunities to do it, but hes missed the deadline 4 of the 5 times, McCarthy said. If any of you are baseball fans, thats batting a .200 average, McCarthy said. If youre a big baseball fan, you know now hes at the Mendoza line. The Mendoza line is about Mario Mendoza, he explained. Its the line that you talk for a major league baseball player if they become incompetent. I think the American public expect more and expect accountability, McCarthy said.

Mario Mendoza played nine seasons as a shortstop for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Seattle Mariners and Texas Rangers in the 1970s and 1980s boasting a career average of .215. He has since become a symbol for incompetent hitting, batting only .118 in his final season in 1982. This week, Obama again failed to meet the congressionally mandated first-Monday-in-February deadline to present a budget. Only once during his presidency has he submitted a budget on time, in 2010, when he offered a record $3.8 trillion proposal for fiscal year 2011.

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said the president is shirking his duty by not presenting a budget. "Im disappointed the President has missed his deadline. But Im not surprised, he said in a statement on Monday. We still dont know when well receive the presidents request. "The House Budget Committee will do its job, Ryan added. Well write a budgetand submit it on time. In the past two years, weve offered our solutions to the countrys fiscal challenges. Now the President must do the same."

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said the focus should be on substance over deadlines. Obama has put forward consistently budgets that achieve what the American people overwhelmingly support, Carney said on Monday. On Tuesday, Obama told reporters, both the House and the Senate are working towards budget proposals that I hope include a mix of spending cuts and more taxes.

Source
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See also:

Sequestration: Obama tax-and-spending plan already DOA on Hill
2/5/13 - President Barack Obamas proposal to delay sequestration appeared dead on arrival in the House even before he announced it.

"I'm flabbergasted," House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon told POLITICO ahead of the presidents speech. "Until he addresses the real problem, which is mandatory spending, he's just whistling in the wind." The presidents proposal to put off mandatory spending cuts and push for more revenue through tax reform was the latest salvo in the never-ending fiscal battles, and Republicans have little appetite for any more revenue increases after the year-end tax-rate compromise. The across-the-board sequester cuts, which would reduce Pentagon spending by $487 billion over the next decade, were originally scheduled to go into effect on Jan. 2, but were delayed to March 1. Obama insists that a new package of tax revenue and spending cuts is essential to the health of the economy, but this latest public relations offensive lacks the urgency of the New Years Eve fiscal cliff compromise and congressional Republicans are no longer in a compromising mood on taxes.

House Speaker John Boehner slammed the plan before Obama even spoke, suggesting that new revenues should not be part of any deficit-reduction package, short-term or long-term. We believe there is a better way to reduce the deficit, but Americans do not support sacrificing real spending cuts for more tax hikes, the Ohio Republican said in a statement. Top Republicans in the House echoed Boehners sentiment after the presidents remarks Tuesday. Tax reform should be about making the code simpler and fairer for American families and helping employers create more jobs. The presidents proposal is nothing more than another tax hike to pay for more Washington spending, House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) said in a statement. That is not what America needs.

Many Democrats have dug in against deeper spending cuts. Congress has already cut discretionary spending defense and non-defense to levels that jeopardize economic growth as well as services and investments critical to families and communities, said New York Rep. Nita Lowey, the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee. We must prevent a single-minded focus on spending cuts from further weakening a still fragile economy.

Speaking from the White House Briefing Room, Obama called for a short-term delay of sequestration, scheduled to begin in March 1, that would include unspecified spending cuts and new revenues through tax reform while a longer-term deficit-reduction package was hammered out in Congress. "There is no reason that the jobs of thousands of Americans who work in national security or education or clean energy, not to mention the growth of the entire economy, should be put in jeopardy because folks in Washington couldn't come together to eliminate a few special-interest tax loopholes or government programs that we agree need some reform," he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-already-doa-on-hill-87210.html#ixzz2KBn6QsUS
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Gemini_Fyre · Feb 7, 2013

fightinfalc16 said: ↑

Hi everyone first post,

I have been reading a ton on the "fiscal cliff deal" and not sure what to think if it is a better or worse deal than actually going over the cliff; Having the sequestration and expiring tax cuts for all.

There are lots of different views and I would like to hear them all, Thanks.
Click to expand...

There is no fiscal cliff. They will simply increase the debt limit as usual. The only variable of this is the amount of theatrics played prior to, and the amount of evil legislation passed during the "hysteria". It's like watching pro wrestling, you know what is going to happen. It is just showmanship is all.

unrealist42 · Feb 12, 2013

The US would have been far better off fiscally just going over the cliff with its across the board tax increases and spending cuts. The tax deal makes the situation less than good. Any sequester deal will make things substantially worse.

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Is the "Fiscal Cliff Deal" better or worse than actually going over the cliff

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