Is the Occitan mutually intelligeble with Paris French?

In my linguistic research of the EU, I found this special and unique latin language, the Occitan. I wonder, if French posters or someone who travelled to South France before, do you observe if Occitan is understandable if you speak French? I know that Georges Pompidou was an Occitan and he identified it with French. But the Principality of Monaco teaches it as a separate language labelled Monesque. What is it likewhen you hear Occitan? Does it work for a French communication? Thanks.

 

Nowdays in Southern France they speak French. May be with some "southish" accent but still French.

I think...Partially.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vTj7yw68YU"]un ciutadan occitan explica qu'es èstre occitan uèi - YouTube[/ame]

French is my native language and I speak it with a parisian accent, but I can understand some of what they are saying in the above video. Breizh by comparison is a whole different matter

I thinks it's good to see the resurgence of dialects in France under the EU umbrella.

 

I understand most of that clip. I speak French and Spanish fluently but also understand Italian, Portuguese etc as a by product. I just try to understand and the brain fills in the gaps.

But that makes it quite difficult for me to establish in my brain which language I'm translating. I only listened once and not closely, but I hear Spanish words. Some languages are a hybrid.

All I can say is, I understand what was spoken in the clip and sure I could get by there.

 

Since you are a Scot who can speak Spanish and French fluently, you would probably get by there better than me.

I'm not sure but I think they are speaking Occitan in that clip. The man being interviewed seems to mix it with French and Spanish at times indeed. I couldn't understand every word of it but I could get what they were talking about.

I guess the Occitan suffers from a lack of reconition and ends up using words, etc. from foreign languages such as Spanish and French.

 

Languages evolve anyway, and 'unrecognised' minority languages which aren't supported by daily written use inevitably soak up words from other languages.

I don't know Occitan at all (or French, for that matter!), but using Welsh as an example (which does have much recognition and written support these days, obviously) there are words which have been absorbed from English (and previously by Latin, of course). There are also some Englsih words of Welsh origin, and in Wales many people unthinkingly mix elements of the two languages together when speaking either one of them (whether they speak Welsh or not - there are still words and phrases from Welsh used, and unusual English phrases and constructions that are actually just direct translations from the Welsh that have persisted in English within Wales). I would think that the less a language is 'recognised', and the more 'monority' is, and the less people use it as their first language on a daily basis, the more open it is to being influenced by the other languages being spoken around it.

I do know that France was much less mono-lingual than most people expect until relatively recently in its history, so it's good to see these other languages surviving and being encouraged.

You would probably be more likely to understand Breton as a Welsh speaker than as a French speaker - they are two very closely related 'sister' languages from the common source of the old Brythonic tongue (along with Cornish). They have obviously developed differently, and been influenced by different other languages, over their histories, but apparently they still retain many similar words, constructions and devices (such as mutation of initial consonants according to context).

 

I tried to find an interview in Breton but didn't find it. Apparently this is a breton song, I was wondering if you could understand it:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MImv7d8-DI"]Breton folk music - Soazig - Ar Soudarded - YouTube[/ame]

I can only get the word army/armé but it is beautiful. Perhaps you can tell what it is about?

Sadly dialects/un-official languages have often been repressed in France by way of force, confirming the aphorism which links an official language to the size of its army.

And now I'm left wondering for the life of me if I am to rejoice in the fact that we are only able to have this conversation in English

 

I suspect that he might have a bit of trouble with it. (Perhaps not though) To a non-native French speaker, spoken Breton sounds like French. Even if the words aren't similarly formed, the pitch and accent (which really account more for how people perceive languages anyway) sound alike. There's a specific term for this sort of phenomenon, but I'm not remembering it at the moment. It basically revolves around less prestigious, minority languages gradually adapting accents that are in many ways similar to the main, prestige dialect spoken where they live.

I think that probably, even if there were mutual intelligibility in the written language between Welsh and Breton, it would be non existent in the spoken language. The effect would most likely not be unlike when you hear an Englishman trying to speak French with such a heavy accent that you do not at first realize that he is, in fact, attempting to speak French.

But maybe I am wrong and cenydd will surprise me.

 

I'm eager to hear from cenydd as Breton sounds to me very different from French and English, while Occitan sounds familiar with French and Spanish.

Very interesting that you say Breton sounds like French to you, especially since you seem to have a fairly good French.

But you're probably right about that Englishman. And since I'm used to hearing mostly American English, we might experience some sort of mal entendre

 

I am Spanish and catalan native speaker. And although occitan written is quite similar to catalan written, spoken is quite hard for me to understand it. Although something I understood.

 

Well, it doesn't sound like French in the song. But, to me, when its spoken regularly it does. I remember when I was staying in France and changed to a news program halfway through, in which a French reporter was interviewing a Breton. I tried to follow, but I wasn't getting anywhere (I thought it was just a very heavy regional accent). I asked my roommate if he could translate for me, and he gave me this weird look which was followed up with, "Eh... J'peux pas... Cet homme n'est pas vraiment francais." I was quite puzzled by this and then, after a few questions, I learned about the whole Breton/Brittany thing.

So, long story short, when I hear a person speaking Breton it sounds like incomprehensible French. Not sure there's really any other way to describe it. Perhaps if you listened to someone speaking Scotts you would get a feeling for what I'm talking about? I don't know. Maybe to you it will sound like someone from the UK trying to speak English, but the words aren't the same. Try it out and see?

 

Interesting. Does Occitan sound like French to your ears? This would further Plymouth's point.

 

I have spent time with Scots and indeed when they spoke English it sounded to me incomprehensible at times. Other times it hardly sounded like English at all.

As to Breton I very seldomly hear it, even when I go vacating in Brittany. Furthermore it's disappointing to see that Breizh tv is mostly broadcasted in French.

 

Whatever Scotts is.

Broad Scots is an EU listed language. We are bilingual.

 

My bad. I keep making spelling mistakes here. I should stop believing Americans have a better English than me

*Scots*

 

If you listen to Scots Gaelic, which they keep trying to revive but really we chose to use English as lingua franca for international communication centuries ago and now most of us have English for work and Broad Scots everywhere else...Gaelic is still in heavy use in some regions but I don't want to speak it.

Anyway...if you listen to Scots Gaelic it's a bit mad how they throw in modern words because there is no Gaelic word for them. If language is developing naturally and is structured, they should apply the linguistic rules and come up with a translation for new words. It's a necessity to incorporate that, if the language is to remain relevant and independent of English.

 

A huge problem in Irish. Their are a large number of words for which their is simply no equivalent or known precursor. They apply rules (sort of) in the spelling but for the pronunciation it is clearly identifiable as the english word.

 

I hear Irish and Scots Gaelic are closely related. Can you understand yourselves as do Norwegians and Swedes for instance?

As a native French speaker I must say that I hardly understand Spanish, but I can more easily get a conversation in Italian.

 

I honestly do not know. I have never spoken to a Scottish person using Irish and I hardly ever use Irish in Ireland. It's use is generally restricted to small areas on the west coast. My grandfather is a fluent speaker. When he does sums he mouths the Irish rather than the English numbers. But the standard of Irish I, and his other grandchildren, posses is a disappointment to him.Sometime he takes a mood to speak only Irish to us which is always a challenge.

 

Interesting. I thought Irish was widely used in Ireland, in a few newspapers and perhaps tv shows - sort of like Catalan in Catalonia.

 

This is what I meant... Although its only a difference of a T.

 

TV stations wishing to avail of public funds must use a minimum amount of Irish in their programming. Their are only 5 domestic channels of which only one (the least watched) is all through Irish and it is always subtitled. Most families use satellite to watch British TV channels.

One of the main dailies has a small pullout in Irish on a Wednesday and there is a small Irish language newspaper but it is most commonly used as a classroom resource rather than a source of news.

It is estimated that less than 50,000 people use Irish in daily life.

It is a compulsory language in schools, a subject of some controversy, and is required for entry to many colleges. the argument is that familiarity with a living and widely used language should surely take precedence over a language that many parents and students see as dying.

There are a growing number of young children being educated through Irish but whether this growth stems form a love of the language or a desire to keep ones child away from poor students and immigrants (Both less likely to attend gaelshoileanna) is another source of debate.

 

Very enlightening. Thank you.

 

Nope. I'm not fluent in Welsh, although I can speak a bit, and recognise alot more (it is very much in daily use in Wales, so is a language I hear spoken around me). That sounded very different though - the pronunciation does sound kind of 'French' to my ears. I might have had more chance recognising any similarities if I were reading it rather than listening to it.

If you listen to spoken Welsh you might see what I mean. It might have similar words and constructions, but overall it sounds completely different:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFrCCjZRi0E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFrCCjZRi0E[/ame]

 

I see. Thanks.

Also interesting to learn that English is your native language, as ryanm34, even though Welsh is very much in daily use.