Is the speed of light zero?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bloggs45@hotmail, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Bloggs45@hotmail

    Bloggs45@hotmail Newly Registered

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    Einsteins postulate is that the speed of light is constant but Einsteins postulate does not explain the quantum mechanics of how the speed is achieved .
    A photon does not have a propulsion mechanism therefore I propose the photons momentum is a consequence of gravitational transition . Gravitational transition being higher energy states progressing to lower energy state spatial points . Explaining the process

    Momentum hf = F<E

    Suggesting that photons are attracted by force to lesser energy state points rather than having an unique speed of its own.

    A comparison to spectral transitions .
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    They have measured the speed of light and it isn't zero. Thanks, though.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Photons are emitted by every light bulb in your house.

    Yet, you think that's GRAVITY??
     
  4. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here's light photographed at a trillion frames per second travelling through a coke bottle. Implying it has a definite speed in a particular medium.

     
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  5. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Active Member

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    The speed of light is retarded.
     
  6. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly so. Einstein's suggested speed of light, about 300,000 km/sec, is the speed in a vacuum (empty space). Bruce Cathie offered 144,000 arc minutes per sec in a curved path around the planet (hence the idea that a supposed point of observational intelligence traveling at that speed doing 7 deviating orbits per sec could rapidly survey the entire world).

    Gravitational lensing around the visual edges of a planet is the scientifically accepted evidence that the path of light is bent by mass. The OP's implication that the primary driving force is gravity is not entirely convincing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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  7. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The speed of light (in a vacuum at least) is a constant from all inertial frameworks. Though . . . I suppose you could argue that from the photon's point of view, time basically comes to a stand-still and that it simultaneously exists at all points in its timeline.
     
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  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Newly Registered

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  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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  10. Chrizton

    Chrizton Newly Registered

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    IDK. The center of a black hole maybe would be the only thing I can think of where maybe it could happen naturally.
     
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  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    All though black holes do strange things to light and most everything else.
     
  12. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Guys, this is the only post submitted by this author on PF since October. Now I don't know if this is a bot or some other form of spam but given there's been zero buy in to the debate by whoever started the thread I'd say its time to ignore and walk away.
     
  13. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which "this author" are you referring to?
     
  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Einstein didn't suggest a speed of light. It was measured and has been many times. And you are talking gibberish.
     
  15. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? LOL! How exactly does that work?
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you suggesting everything is moving except for light?
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's remember that the speed of light changes when it passes through materials like glass. (It slows down a little bit, roughly around 50%)

    There's good reason to think that the speed of light (which refers to the speed of light in a vacuum) might not be inherently fixed as a fundamental law of the universe, and rather might be related to the properties of space. Scientists do not believe empty space is actually empty, rather it consists of energy in a form that is not well understood.


    What happens in a material like glass or water is that, at certain intervals, the light will be absorbed and then reemitted. Since all the photons are in phase, they act simultaneously together. It may sound very counterintuitive, but at no point is the energy of the light ever imparted to and dissipated by the material it is passing through. This has to do with quantum mechanics, and forbidden outcomes. One could say the wave-like nature of light prevents the excitations in the solid medium from transferring away energy in any other way than the quick reemitting back as the wave of light propagates through the material. Light can even pass through transparent solids, and be temporarily slowed down, without losing its ambiguous location and previous entangled state.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  18. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The speed of light is variable depending on the medium. Then too, what we refer to in the physics equations as the variable c casually referred to the speed of light, isn’t about light’s speed but something else.
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the speed of light represents some sort of constant, since if you changed the speed of light, we (or "an observer") wouldn't really be able to tell. Changing the speed of light changes time as well.

    So it's almost meaningless to talk about changing the speed of light, if the speed of light is changing for the observer as well as what is being observed.
    There would be no relative change to observe, if that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  20. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    But that means that the speed of light would change with gravity... Oh wait!
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does change in extremely strong gravitational wells, but only in proportion to the change in rate of passage of time, so in reality an observer can't see this change in light speed. Unless they are looking at somewhere further away, under a different level of gravitational influence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What you are proposing is interesting, but not in the way you had thought of it.
    There is a theory out there that the effect of gravitational force can be explained entirely by time dilation. (You will have to go look that up)
    Time dilation could be seen as basically a change in the speed of light. So this theory assumes speed of light ultimately leads to the physical effect of gravity. But in quantum physics, there are not really any one-way cause-effect relationships. There are correlations. It becomes meaningless to say that when two things are always correlated it is because one is "causing" the other.
    So what if we viewed that theory in reverse?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  23. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    They clocks they use to measure the 'time distortion' measure light frequency emitted from a cesium atom. The problem is that gravity can cause frequency distortions of light so of course the clocks would be different at different gravity.

    This does not prove that time itself is being distorted. As if you might age slower or faster etc. To prove that, you need to prove other properties or forms of energy are slowed by gravity.
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you missed the whole point of what I was saying.

    Gravity is not going to cause frequency distortions (besides from time dilation) unless there are sudden changes in gravity.

    But you are right, for full completeness, they should measure other things besides electromagnetic radiation. But that can be very difficult and inconvenient to do experimentally.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  25. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Bloggs, the original poster. The only message apparently posted by this member on PF since 25 Oct is the one starting this thread. And as I noted he/she/it has shown zero interest in the follow-up posts since starting it. Hence my suggestion that its probably time to ignore it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020

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