Is welfare really helping anybody

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by jakem617, Dec 28, 2012.

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Do you believe in the welfare system?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. jakem617

    jakem617 Member

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    First off, I would preferably like to hear this from people that are on welfare or know people on welfare or are just strong supporters of the welfare system. My question is, why do people on welfare feel that they "deserve" money from rich people? Why do the wealthy have to share a piece of their "pie"? If I work very hard to make a nice "pie" for myself (pie being a business, company, product, service, etc. that makes me earn a lot of money), why should I share it with people who didn't work as hard as I did to make a good living?

    I know some of you may say that people on welfare with kids should get money to support there kids, but I have a very simple solution to that if you don't make a lot of money. DON'T HAVE KIDS! I know that may be a tough concept for some to understand but there are many resources for birth control, so if you ask me, that is a lame excuse.

    Some people may say that poor people don't have a chance to make a good living, but that is a poor argument as well. I go to college with several people who had rough childhoods. There are men like Andrew Carnegie and Rockefeller who grew up extremely poor without an education and became the wealthiest men in history. In fact, most millionaires in this day and age are self made (as in, they didn't start with money, and they earned their living by hard work and intelligence).

    Some may say that people are disabled. This I can kind of understand, but in my opinion, if you are disabled you can still choose to be productive or do nothing. My mom works with a teacher who is blind, and he is one of the best teachers in the school. Helen Kellar was deaf and blind and still made a contribution to the world, earning a bachelors degree and becoming a political activist. If you are mentally handicapped, I could understand at that point because a person who is mentally handicapped does have a right to life and liberty, which could be nearly impossible to achieve through mere hard work. That being said, if you are just "less intelligent" and not actually mentally handicapped, that is a very lame excuse because you have just as much ability to learn and contribute, but you choose to make the excuse that it won't work and don't even try. We live in a day and age with libraries in almost every major city, new books being written and released every day on every subject, and an internet that connects all of us as well as the information of nearly every man on earth, so the resources for learning and growing exist.

    For those of you who think that the rich don't pay their "Fair share", here is an interesting little fact about how much tax people pay.



    Income bracket Average before tax income Average federal income tax rate Average payroll tax rate Average effective tax rate (federal and payroll)
    Lowest quintile $23,000 -9.30% 8.30% 1.0%
    Second quintile $43,400 -2.60% 7.90% 6.80%
    Middle quintile $64,300 1.30% 8.40% 11.10%
    Fourth quintile $93,800 4.6% 9.10% 15.10%
    Highest quintile $223,500 13.40% 7.20% 23.20%
    Source: CBO

    Sorry it's a little messy, but notice that the lowest two quintiles average federal income tax rate is actually negative, while the top 20% of american's who work extremely hard to pick up the slack for the lazy people and actually get the bottom 40% out of the hole.

    So what is it? Why do we have a welfare system that benefits the ignorant and the lazy for doing nothing but sucking the lifeblood of society? Also, as far as my political views, I am not a republican or a democrat. Economically I lean more towards republicans, but I also believe in the right to choose (although not in the way we have it), medical benefits for everyone (we all have the right to life), and gay marriage (they don't hurt me).

    Also, there is one industry that I strongly believe should be "socialized" in a sense, and that is the medical industry. I think that if somebody get's cancer and needs treatment, and can't afford it, it is unfair. I also think that this could actually be a serious detriment to our society as a man who may want to start a business, but can't because he can't afford his medical bills for an illness that the couldn't help. Another benefit that I believe in is unemployment, but that being said I think it should be limited to 2 or 3 years maximum. Without unemployment, somebody could be laid off and become homeless without any chance to get back on their feet. However, after the 2 or 3 years, if they still don't have any job, then that's just too bad (2 years is more then enough time).
     
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism leads to mass unemployment and inefficient income inequalities, further encouraged by market concentration. Welfare is but a rational reaction to that: from maintaining the physical efficiency of the unemployed (so they are 'potential workers' and therefore a discipline device on the workforce) to simply reducing militancy.

    Those that are against welfare are actually against capitalism. They just don't know it!
     
  3. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    Welfare in an interesting concept.
    Out here, there is little or nothing by way of welfare so people tend to find work where westerners see none.
    Of course, that commonly means working like a madman for very little money and living in terrible conditions with no school for the kids and no hope of medical care if they become ill.
     
  4. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    As a condition of welfare payments, the recipients are required to sign a nondisclosure agreement with regard to information related to payments for votes, political opinions or payments for so called union strikes.
     
  5. Rockefeller Republican

    Rockefeller Republican New Member

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    Id perfer a negative income tax as Milton Freedman suggested.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    It won't work unless you go for progressive tax hikes to ensure the lowest income is sufficiently high
     

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