ISNA Longs to Replace Spain with Islamic 'Andalusia'

Your post has my backing in history... The point that should be emphasized here in Islam is the following.
"Land conquered for Islam is Muslim at perpetuity" according to their beliefs. But not necessary feasible, this is why Israel make the Arabs jitter a little as they are virtually insecure today.

 

The arabs didnt destroy when they took over the levant. Rather they granted its non muslim sbjects a religious freedom which was unknown in europe until the dnlightenment. They also really flourished culturally early on tho later it slowed down. Also, spain was muslim. Look uo al-andalus.

 

Not when writing from phone. Its hell i tellyou. My chubby thumbs arent the best

 

1000s years before
you are not expert on this subject, novgorod and Baghdad were once 2 the wealthiest cities in the world. and you know forget about Kiev and novgorod . lets talk about "al-andalus " vs. est roman empire[video=youtube;XNiLuxdS4Ac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNiLuxdS4Ac[/video]

 

The Byzantine Empire was a theocracy that lasted for one thousand years. The language changed from Latin to the more dominant Greek two hundred years after Constantine founded the city, although Latin was still an official language. It was the wealthiest place in the world and the people the most educated as well. Instead of writing in the spoken Greek, they wrote in Classical Greek and they had more libraries and schools than all of Western Europe.

After the Crusades many of the Greek and Anatolian lands were colonized by the Genovese and Venetians, and it was this intermingling with the Italian states that brought the ancient Greek knowledge to Italy and started the Renaissance.

 

You are probably right. I don't know that much about it, but didn't the Seljuk Turks take over later on? Anyway when the Arabs went into those highly developed areas, such as Alexandria they absorbed the culture and kept it for a while. I might be mistaken but I think the Crusades were called when the Turks would not allow the Christians to visit the Holy sites.

 

To be more precise, the Christians fought the muslims and their Jewish collaborators for 781 years. And when the Christians finally won their booted both the muslims and the Jews out.

 

Jewish collaborators? With the Muslims? Hardly.

The Jews didn't have the wherewithall to fight anyone, actually, but they did have to contend with the likes of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

You may want to read history. The Jews facilitated the muslim invasion of Spain in 711. And they fought on the muslims' side for the next 781 years against the Spanish Christians.
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/20...the-arab-muslim-side-against-white-europeans/

 

Wow, you really have your own version of history no wonder Muslims are so much at a lost because they just can't reconcile with facts and history.

Here is the history and it is easily available in the internet;

Following the Muslim conquest of Hispania, Al-Andalus was divided into five administrative units, corresponding roughly to modern Andalusia, Galicia and Portugal, Castile and León, Aragon and Catalonia, and Septimania

Pay attention to the words MUSLIM CONQUEST, Spain and Andalusia was never part of Muslim land it was taken by force by Muslims and Christians fought back to get it all back. Just like Muslim took Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Constantinople and Palestine by force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus
The Arabs did not destroy it was the Muslims who destroy Arab culture and identity as centre of Christian learning. That is why Arab-Christians were reduce substantially now Arabs are reclaiming their history and culture.

 

Spain went on to be one of the most expansionist nations in the world after they expelled the muslims. Funding Columbus by Ferdinand and Isabella soon followed and after that their empire included much of the Americas as well as parts of Asia. Sometimes it best not to push your luck and awaken a terrible foe, if anyone is interested in learning from history...

 

Spain was on a war footing in 1491 with a large standing army that had just won a major victory over a centuries' old foe. Ferdinand & Isabella needed something to do with their military so they sent Columbus off so see what he could find. When he returned with evidence of new lands across the ocean the Spanish were on their way to world conquest. Cortez and Pizarro went on to defeat the Aztec and Incas with just a handful of mean troops each. Those were probably the most lop-sided
military victories in all of history.

 

Yes the tapestry of history certainly is interesting and we need to try to learn from it as best we can.

 

and so today the Jews, led by Bloomburg, are allied with the Muslims in the building of the so called "ground zero mosque"?

Somehow, that site looks a bit lopsided to me.

 

Google till you find one you like.

 

The Jews and Christians were allowed to practice their religions under Muslim rule.

The Muslims did not prefer to convert people to Islam as Islam does not encourage conversion.
Islam is not evangelical like Christianity.
Muslim conquest was about land.

Because Muslims allowed Christians and Jews to stay as they were and live inside the city when the Muslims lived outside the cities the C's and J's actually ran the cities under Muslim rule.

IF Muslims were supposed to convert others then they would have had no money in taxes so all that people say about forced conversion was lies. Muslims needed cash to administer rule pay and equip it's armies etc and if the Spanish all converted where would that cash come from?

Islam was not defeated in Spain.
The real problem was it became harder to administer and defend it as it enlarged with so few Muslims against so many C's and J's. Only the Muslims were the army.

The Spanish and Europe were wild barbarians in the middle ages living in dark times with wars between them all and diseases and lack of education and bad weather and plagues and on top of all that continual Popes waging wars between each own countries own royal families and landowners.

In the end the Muslims left them to it and as the Jews were then more at risk from the crazy Christians the Jews chose to leave too with the Muslims to North Africa and berbers areas to be protected by the Muslims against the Christians.

 

is a marginal designation for the East Roman Empire , people in europe, and Romans started to use it only after the so-called "The Fourth Crusade"...

 

+1. do you think it was enough for natives, to be allowed to practice their religion?
The real problem not 1, it were plenty The real problems ....last 250 years Emirate of Granada existed only as a client state of Iberia´s christian legitimate rulers . who could easy finished of Al-Andalus experiment much earlier ....

ps

 

Granada never was a terrible foe to the Crown of Castile. , never....

 

western civilization was founded around AD 400 in northern Italy?

I'm sure they were, but why do you have such a difficulty acknowledging that al-andalus was really prosperous and wealthy too?

During this time the romans were getting their asses handed to them on all fronts, by slavs and bulgars in the balkans, a huge pwnage by the arabs who took the levant and all of north africa, and germans in italy. Rome was in decline. I'm not denying that they were advanced for they sure were, but what's characteristic of this age is that their 'barbarian' nieghbors were catching up with them, and some, like the arabs, even took the lead in certain fields.

 

I'm not that good at middle eastern history but I reckon that the abbasids were ahhpily ruling from baghdad until the mongols came and burned (*)(*)(*)(*) down, then after a while came the seljuqs and conquered parts of the weakened empire. I recall it being the turks prohibiting christian too.

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seeing as how they were treated by christians in comparison to the relative freedom enjoyed in islamic countries, I'm not suprised at all.

 

I didn't deny that they conquered it, I said that it was indeed muslim land. The muslims conquered most of their lands but that's quite frankly irrelevant. If it was ruled by muslims or had significant muslim population it suffices to be called muslim lands. The christian did retake it but it last some seven hundred years, which is longer than than christianity's presences in the americas, which I don't think you have any problem with calling christian lands.

Are you trying top paint out muslims as being more violent and keen to expansion then the christians while ignoring the baltic crusades and the colonisation of the americas? I'd say that it's just a fundamental pillar of these off-shoots from judaism.

I'm guessing you don't quite like muslims, but you don't have to rewrite history for that. How do you cope with the fact that the islamic world was the most advanced civilization for a while? That arab culture and technology flourished once they moved out from the arabian peninsula?

 

Are you sure Islam does not promote conversion? I'm talking about voluntary conversion of course, not forced. Seeing as people are rather stubborn when it comes to religion, how come there are soo many muslims in modern day muslim countries if islam didn't care about converting? And that reminded me; I think I've read that in the early arab conquest, the conquerors let people choose to convert or be put to the sword. I may recall incorrectly of course, but I think that there are some exceptions to this tolerance, especially during conquest. Later on, in peace I'm sure it was very chill. But it's really puzzling as to how say egypt could become muslim if they didn't use coercion..

Was it only dimmis who had to pay taxes by the way? I thought that just had extra jizya taxes, and that muslims just had lower. I don't know too much about it though.

Oh, we see this comming from both sides; calling each other barbarians. *sigh*.. have you heard about charlemegne and his Frankish kingdom? How he built baths in aachen, and how he instituted the biggest learning reform in europe since the fall of western Rome?

 

Once Israel is gone, and the Israeli Jews are pushed back into Europe (I wonder if the EU Jew-haters have thought this part through?). The Islamists, driven by their expansionist/aggressive/superiority complex nature, will look to reclaim other lands once under Muslim control (again- I wonder if the EU Jew-haters have thought this part through?). Once a land is conquered by Muslims, it is forever Muslim territory to Islamists. Just the fact that the non-Muslim Spanish control Spain is a casus belli to reclaim it. Europeans should be very careful about Muslim immigrants putting their Islamic green flags on abandoned Christian churches. Muslim do not necessarily think as secular humanist socialists do. They do not want to sing "Kumbaya" and accept the yoke of the progressive cultural Marxist establishment.

In a realpolitik sense, Israel is a buffer state for the West. They shield Europe by acting as a Islamist aggression magnet as Jupiter shields the Earth from many asteroids with her larger gravitational field.
With Israel gone, Islam's old aggression towards Europe will be allowed to blossom. The skeptics should consider why Islamists are making war/terrorism on Hindus and Buddhists as we speak before the laugh.