Israel: US Asks Iran to Not Sink an American Carrier, “Just Kill Some Troops Instead”

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sobo, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you say we don't have a policy. The President has articulated a foreign policy preference since before his campaign. The President is a supporter of Realpolitik. He believes in a transactional foreign policy working in the interest of the United States, and views foreign policy as a tool of advancing the goals of the United States. If there is a Trump doctrine, that's the core of it.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is preposterous ignorance of US history over the last number of decades - to not be able to come up with numerous examples.

    What terrorists or acts of terrorism did "Soleiman" support ? You have not listed any but, none compares to arming and supporting a radical Islamist proxy army - led by Al Qaeda and ISIS - in Syria. None compares to our support for Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia in Yemen (for which we are being investigated for war crimes)

    None compares to support for Saddam while using Chemical weapons - even if you believe that the false flag chemical attacks were not false flags. Those attacks were nothing by comparison to what Saddam did.

    None compares to support for death squad dictators in Indonesia, El Salvador, Guatemala - In the Central American battles we trained these soldiers in terror tactics at the School of the America's.

    so do tell - what has Soleimani done that remotely compares. He spent most of the last decade killing ISIS/Al Qaeda - is that the terrorism you are referring to ?
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Those are principles that might be applicable. But, saying stuff like foreign policy being a tool used to advance goals of the US is assumed.

    But, nothing you have mentioned comes close to being a policy. And, Trump has demonstrated that he has no respect for his entire foreign policy team, preferring to take individual actions coming from himself. This assassination is a demonstration of his total disrespect for foreign policy.

    And, the whole Ukraine thing is a demonstration of Trump screweing over Ukraine (and the expressed will of congress) in order to make political points in his own reelection!! He thinks foreign policy is a tool to be used against AMERICA!
     
  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Funny...you accuse me of ignorance of US history because of my lack of knowledge of terrorism, but you don't know what terrorist acts Soleimani is responsible for, even though he's dominated the news for the past month? OK...the assassination of the Lebanon's President, Khobar Towers, and the death of approximately 600 US soldiers in Iraq.

    Now can you point to me when we supported Saddam's chemical warfare?
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but that just seems like nonsense. Trump has a policy, and you don't seem to have a favored alternate, you just want to complain about what he's doing, without offering an alternative.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice cherry picking the most tiny thing on the list of acts of terrorism - but - it is not some secret that we were allied with Iraq against Iran when Saddam was using Chemical weapons ... and continued to give support to the his regime afterwards.

    Reagan threatened veto of the "Prevention of Genocide act" - a bill proposing to sanction Saddam for the Chemical genocide - Funding to Saddam increased under Bush.

    I did not say I was not aware of Soleimani's activities - I asked you to list which you thought were acts of terrorism - and then compare to the US acts listed.

    Your 600 US soldiers in Iraq is laughable - as this was a war - and he was on the opposing side. If it is "terrorism" to be on the other side of a war - We are guilty of a whole lot more than this guy. What a joke of an argument.

    The political assassination of the Lebanese President - Hezbollah was thought to be involved but you have not linked to Soleimani - but - even if this is the case - this is a civil war action - done from within.

    In any case - if you wish to label this terrorism - so be it. First prove your claim that Soleimani was involved . Second - explain how this is worst than arming a terrorist proxy army which resulted in the death of 500,000 Syrians, massive war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    Next ..
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I've stated the alternative.

    The alternative is to actually have a strategy and a plan for the region - or just for Iran, for that matter.

    Our previous strategy was to get Iran to sign a treaty between a number of nations including us, some european countries and Russia. That would require inspections. If Iran bloked inspections, there would be grounds for that group of nations to take steps to defend the deal they signed.

    It was the foundation of a multi national push against Iranian nuclear capability led by the US, but with commitment from the signees by the very fact that they signed.

    Trump killed that. And, instead he's taking ad hoc actions that are part of NO strategy, that drive allies away from us, that make it essentially impossible to get commitment from Russia, annd even go so far as to justify Iran's need for nuclear deterrence against an adversary (the US) that has demonstrated that it will not negotiate in good faith, while having lethal intent.

    That's not a strategy. That is a FREAKING disaster.

    As for the guy who was assasinated, every country in the world recognizes that he was a top government official, and that our justification for the action was changing, contradicory, and supremely weak.

    Other nations are NOT seeing that as leadership. They see it as a clown show. And, in the case of Europe, it destroyed their efforts to get back on track on the original strategy of holding Iran to account for the treaty Iran signed.
     
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  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    "Funding to Saddam increased under Bush."

    Whut?

    You are pretty clearly a follower of some of the more conspiracy minded sites out there.

    As for the "600 soldiers" being laughable, I didn't realize we were at war with Iran. If so, why cry over spilled Soleimani? You just said it was a war so there you go.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It seems pretty clear there is a strategy. I've posted as much at multiple points. You just don't like it.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We were in a war with Iraq- a war in which Soleimani was fighting. It is laughable gibberish to claim that fighting on one side of a war is "terrorism".

    Don't blame me that you are not aware that funding to Saddam increased under Bush - and this does not matter to the topic in any case -one you are desperate to divert from as you have no ability to deal with the fact that we armed a terrorist proxy army in Syria - and that many of our leaders are far worse than Soleimani on this basis alone.
     
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You will believe anyone who hates America. It is getting old.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Oh, your embassy was also attacked? I didn't know.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Yes. San Francisco is bad. It is a mismanaged city. It is sad. I wouldn't go there either. The San Franciscans vote for the people that manage their city. They vote badly. It is a democratic process. It is what it is.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out this Bush funding Saddam thing. Which Bush increased funding to Saddam, the Bush who went to war against him, or the Bush who went to war against him?
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your brain is in thought avoidance mode. Your brain is stuck on something that has nothing to do with leading a global effort to arm, supply and support a terrorist proxy army in Syria - one led by Al Qaeda and ISIS.

    It has has nothing to do with Reagan supporting Saddam while using chemical weapons. It was a simple add on triviality - that the next admin - Which would be Bush Sr - increased funding to Saddam - at least during the first year he was in office. Then Saddam invaded Kuwait - and we were no longer friends.

    You are supposed to be coming up with deeds of Solimani that are worse than numerous in our ranks - so far you have failed - miserably.
     
  16. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    How many years have we been in Afghanistan and Iraq???How many years were we in Viet Nam before we finally admitted defeat???
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I listed 3 already. The only one you addressed with the death of 600 or so US soldiers and you seemed to laugh at that one. Here is some more that you can ignore: the 92 Israeli Embassy bombing, the bombing of the Argentine Jewish Center, and the rocket attacks against Israel. So your position was that Soleimani isn't a terrorist? Interesting.

    As for Bush financing Saddam, could you source that?
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The one you gave was complete BS - Assassination of Lebanon leader - You have not even stated who did it - never mind showing that Soleiman involved.

    You calling two sides killing each other in a war "terrorism" is abject nonsense. - now you are saying a bunch more unsubstantiated stuff.

    What you have not done - is shown that Soleimani is worse than our leaders with respect to Terrorism - None of what you point to - adds up to Syria.. not even close. 500,000 dead, war crimes, crimes against humanity en masse.

    None of what have shown (even if we include the stuff you made up) adds up to Yemen.
     
  19. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    In the Iraq - Iran war.
     
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  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    If you think we caused the Syrian Civil war then you are just too far removed from reality to have a discussion about real policy issues.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) it wasn't a "civil war" - it was an armed insurgency
    2) we were the one's that led a global effort to arm that insurgency - which happened to be a radical Islamist Proxy army.

    The History books have already been written - at some point - hopefully - your denial and thought avoidance will turn into grudging acceptance. Until that day you are living in fantasy "necessary Illusion" land.

    Do you think you are the first adherent to display this robotic response ? "NO NO NO - It can't be - we are the good guys and they are the bad guys - because the State propaganda machine told me so"
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    This isn't about good guys and bad guys, it's about what actually happened, and there is a certain strain of people such as yourself who prefer conspiracy theory, that dark forces are manipulating events, rather than verifiable facts that are out in the open.
     
  23. Goomba

    Goomba Banned

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    Tiny quibble- you’re probably referring to the prime minister of Lebanon who got assassinated, not the president. That is all. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    You may be right on that.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are the one touting conspiracy theory - false narrative - and state sponsored propaganda. I merely pointed out actual events and actual facts that conflict with your wild delusion .. so now you are trying to project your issues onto me ..
     

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