Israel vows to pursue Syria operations until Iran leaves

Alexa, Israel is not Mother Teresa but Israel opponents are not better. Today Israel has an upper hand, but what would happen if Israeli opponents won?
Here is quote from Hamas Charter (meantime they removed it):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

“The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

How you can talk to people who believe stones and all trees (except Gharkad tree) will say 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'?
How you would start conversation with such person?

 

The targeting of Iran and China in the early days of the outbreak lead me to believe that Israel had some role in the Plandemic.

Stuxnet some years ago, Covid in 2019.

 

The attack on the USS Liberty was not friendly fire accident. It was a deliberate attack.

 

I appreciate that you addressed the question.

I like what the Israeli's say as well - Terrorism is an act of War - and War is an act of Terror - but - not all acts of war are Terrorism.

In the case of the Israeli's and the Palestinians - the two have been engaged in war and terrorizing each other for 80 years.

If we use killing of innocent civilians as our measuring stick for what is acceptable/not acceptable killing in times of war - to distinguish between an act of terrorism and an acceptable action of war - as you have suggested - we would be using the generally accepted definition - what distinguishes between war and - "war crimes" for example. Israel would be winning having killed 10x the number of children as the Palestinians.

When you knowingly and intentionally kill innocents in targeted assassinations - this is terrorism - as well as being an act of war.
There is example after example of the IDF intentionally killing innocents - hence why they have been accused of war crimes - by objective nations.

This is not so say that just because innocents will potentially get killed - such an action is a "war crime" - but unless there is full scale fighting going on on both sides - such actions are not justified.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/25/israel

These are not - "Anti Semetic Rants" - from evil people with an anti Jew agenda. These are Israeli Pilots saying this. Have you been through some of the incidents ? Its nasty - dropping 1000 lb bombs on crowded apartment blocks - in a targeted assassination - on the basis of one individual walking into that building.

How is this less "terrorism" than blowing up some Bus ? One side killing innocents justifies the other side doing it - in the minds of the those involved in the conflict.

This is a different question - and a bad analogy. You are conflating non state actors - with a Nation State.
In the case of the Taliban - we were fighting for the Nation of Afghanistan - not against it - and we were at war with the Taliban.

In the case of Iran - we are not at war with Iran - nor was Solimoni a non state actor.

Iran can easily start taking out "bad guys" among the US bureaucratic and political elite - or perhaps start targeting the economic Establisment Elite - and their families. Hey - we killed Solimoni's wife in the attack .. its all good in the hood.

This was a mistake - and your your mind is avoiding the consequences of this path you seem to condone - a path that even Donald does not want to go down - on reflection.

Donald made a move on the Chessboard - Iran's reaction was to slap Donald up-side the head - say WTF are you doing - and immediately retaliated - although thankfully - did not go as far off the ranch as Donald. Donald stood by and did nothing in response to Iranian missiles reigning down on one of our bases.

Imagine if this happened out of the blue - what would our response be ? "Unleash the Hounds" ! What was our response ? Zero - nada - some wimpering in the corner by the MSM - "those bad Iranians bombed our base and caused harm to some soldiers" - The Trump admin doing everything in its power to downplay the attack - which is a good thing.

This was a bridge too far - and everyone has agreed that this was a bridge too far - including Trump.

 

Look - my point has always been that there is bad sht on both sides - and both sides are responsible for this mess - along with the outside actors such as the US and other nations. Many Jewish people in Israel - a large segment of the population - are against the current Zionist policies of the regime.

On the other side - a whole lot of people are against the actions of Hamas - want it to stop. Both sides however keeps stirring the pot - giving the other side reasons to hate them -

The idea that EU Nations like the Netherlands - Germany and so on - just wake up in the morning and accuse Israel of war crimes because they have some anti Jew agenda is simply not the case.

 

Some "light reading" before I went to sleep. The life of "the Engineer" Ayyash, the guy who was killed
with a booby-trapped cell phone. 2g of explosive, designed just to kill him and no-one else. Odd when
you think about it - Ayyash targeted civilian crowds, including women and children. Why didn't the Israelis
just blow up the whole villages they knew he was hiding in? Because, generally speaking, the Israelis
targeted the assassins and the Palestinians targeted civilians.
I suggest you read the story and its aftermath - Ayyash became a Palestinian hero and the Jews voted
for the hard right wing, anti-peace, Netanyahu. The story sums up the entire story of Jews and Arabs in
the Levant.

 

"Why didn't the IDF just blow up the whole town" - Sometimes they did
Other times their targeted killing managed not to kill others .. sometimes 2 grams of explosives - other times they used hellfire missiles - like the time some fellow on their list was giving an interview and the Palestinian Media Relations Center -- Reporters - bystanders - and children in the next room killed. Or when in the middle of rush hour traffic - as children were walking home from school - missiles at a car killing/injuring lots of bystanders .

Generally speaking - your apology for the IDF is weak. Would you prefer we gave the Palestinians proper military equipment - so they could attack Israel "Properly" rather than with home made rockets - supped up fireworks - which rarely do much damage.

The instances of Palestinians targeting civilians directly - is the only way the Palestinians have to fight - and a legitimate act of war on this basis. We all have a shared responsibility for the actions of our Gov't - Gov'ts we elect.

but - if we want to keep score - and lay blame on this basis - The IDF has killed 10 times the number of children as the Palestinians.

You talk about "Not targeting Civilians" - the wife and Grandson of the fellow recently targeted demonstrates otherwise. Were they not civilians ? This was not during one of the wars - or when conflict was raging. They were obviously tracking this fellow - why did they not get him when he left the house ?

This was not 3 decades ago - this was 3 months ago - during the middle of a negotiated cease fire - they target the guy they negotiated the cease fire with. Why would any Palestinian Trust anything coming out of the mouth of Bibi ?

 

Your point is honest. It's the response most pro-Palestinians should offer.
The strategy of the Jihadist is to hide behind civilians and children - the
death of a child at the IDF's hand is propaganda for them and political
harm for the Israelis. And kids make the best cover. I understand the
expedience of it - but it's disgusting.

Imagine if those Arabs living in the Levant during the Ottoman Turk days
would have welcomed the return of the Jews to their ancient homeland.
The Jews would have purchased land and brought with them skills, capital
and a strong work and business ethic. Many Jews there today would have
still been in Russia, Africa, the Middle East and Europe because there would
be a lot less anti-Semitism due to the "Palestinian issue."
So the Levant would have boomed and been richer than the gulf states. And
Arabs there would be the most free and rich of all Arabs in the Middle East.
Living in peace with their Semite brothers.

 

This is an absurd and ridiculous false narrative fed to you by various propaganda lobbies. That you have gulped this one down without question should give you pause - at least for a moment - was the kid walking home from school - mid day during rush hour traffic - when numerous hellfire missiles reigned down on a vehicle by the IDF - an example of "hiding behind civilians" ?

What is disgusting is that the media - anyone in the media - repeats this narrative - as if it is anything other than propaganda spin.

Perhaps you would like to live in some futuristic world where robocop is blowing up anything in its path - not my idea of desirable. That is what the Palestinians have been living. Trying to apologize for the war crimes of Israel - by claiming "It was the Palestinians throwing their children in front of our bombs" is - tough to be kind here - I will leave it as that.

2) Why do you say I am pro Palestinian ? Don't mistake objective reason and logic for favoritism.

As discussed previously - there are bigger picture issues here - This conflict has gone on for too long - it is the spark that ignites the Jihadist flame in many ways - and yes - when Israel commits war crimes / steps across the line / which it has done one too many times / this is fodder for the Jihadists .. that is just reality. That you would blame the Jihadists for something Israel created is flawed logic.

This Iran Situation is in some ways connected to this issue. How long have we been talking 2 state solution ? - We need to separate these two - and stop the blood feud - not because I give a hoot about the Palestinians - but because of what is best for the US and the world.

3) Iran is not the main "Terrorist Nation" in the Middle East. That Title goes to Saudi Arabia - whose Team members include - Taliban, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Islamic Front, FSA, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, the extremists in all the Russian and Ex Russian Stans - the nutjobs in Pakistan and India.

Ohh Ohh - but Iran helps the Palestinians - not a big deal by comparison and they do not help them that much - and much is humanitarian aid.

Number 2 Terrorist nation in the Middle east is not Iran - That title goes to the US

Iran doesn't even rank 3rd on the list .. arguably it could be as low as 6th or 7th or possibly even lower.

Iran has been the nation fighting terrorism - something Solimaini spent the much of the last decade doing. Fighting Radical Islamic Jihadists many times worse than Hamas - not even on the same page in fact - Jihadists that we armed, supplied and supported.

So in this cacophony of Orwellian black vs white , good vs evil - God vs Devil doublespeak paradigm where is the right - and where is the wrong.

nary a decade after 911 - not only are we allied with Al Qaeda - we are arming them with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticate military equipment - something that is still a big elephant in the room - verboten among civil discourse - like speaking out against the Iraq war at the time - a career ending move for a few major media figures - even though they were right.

So find me some Good Here .. was the destruction of Syria a good thing - Cradle of civilization - a shining star of Secularism in a sea of Theocracy. What was the point of that pray tell ?

The Ottoman Turks did welcome the Jews to the ancient homeland- and numerous other places in the Middle east - fleeing persecution by the Holy Roman Empire.

First paragraph on WIKI

 

To a point.
When too many Jews arrived, too fast, the dynamic changed.
Arabs were divided. Many arrived in Palestine due to improved
economic opportunities, and many were alarmed at the growing
power of the Jews.
And Turks too began to see the Jews as a problem.

 

Sadly this IS true. The dynamic is compelling - throwing kids at Israeli forces is good theatre.
David vs Goliath stuff. Jews gassing or firing rubber bullets at kids give you international cred.
Jews are the monsters, not you.

 

You completely missed the entire reason why this narrative is nonsense on steroids. It has nothing to do with the actions of the Palestinians.

You have gone into raging denial - unable to deal with reality - or form logical connections.

That some Jihadists have actually used children as Shields - does not change the fact that the IDF kills children when they are not being used as shields. This refutes your argument immediately.

Why are you posting "Jews are the Monsters" ? In your desperate desire to avoid information presented to you - info that conflicts with the State Sponsored Kool aid bought and paid for narrative that is your own - you are talking nonsense.

Israel did not even make the top tier in the list of terrorist nations given you - so why are you talking about Jews being Monsters - 1) as Israel was not on the list 2) even if the IDF was mentioned on the list - that would not make all Jews Monsters.

What you are really trying hard to avoid - is who was listed as 1 and 2 on the terrorist list - and it wasn't Israel.

That would be team USA-El Saud. Hows that for busting into one of your favorite "necessary illusions" - that we are the good guys.

 

In the meantime, from accounts more credible than posts on 'Facebook", regarding the IDF forces, fighting against Hezbollah in the Battle of Bint Jbeil. A small town right on the border with Israel. The town, deserted already, was basically turned into rubble by Israeli artillery and aerial bombardments. A force of more than 5,000 Israeli soldiers, including from their 'elite' Golani brigade, were tasked to capture a town defended by a much smaller Hezbollah force of less than 200.

I summarize from the Wikipedia page, but the applicable citation to the western sources covering the issue can be found in the footnotes to the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil

This highlights one of the differences between General Soleimani, famous for accompanying his forces in battle, compared to even field commanders in the IDF.

Even American journalists trusted enough by the Israelis to let them accompany their forces in battle, couldn't avoid noting the obvious:

These IDF forces also refused to follow orders, but I doubt it was because of any objection to killing of civilians

When the dust settled, and the propaganda was no longer as important as finding out some aspects of the truth to learn from it, the following was clear from the Battle of Bint Jbeil:

 

If you wonder how it is even possible for such a large force, drawn from the best units in the IDF, be unable to defeat a much smaller Hezbollah force, the first thing you need to focus on is this difference:

Compared to:

And Hezbollah doctrine on the issue gets us back to the late General Soleimani, who despite his rank, was usually seen commanding forces in battle alongside with them. Here is from one of the operations that General Soleimani led:

Footnote 90 in this Wikipedia entry is the Times of Israel:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-general-said-to-mastermind-iraq-ground-war/

Here is an Israeli journalist describing how Soleimani was seen by the Israelis:

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...nald-trump-bashar-al-assad.html#ixzz6M6mz8Kii

 

So think about it. Jews supposedly kill children who are not shields.
What is the motive? Bad PR? UN condemnation? More persecution
of diaspora Jews? Thin out the ranks of Palestinians? Terrify Arabs
into submission? Target practice?

What motive would Hamas have for dead children?
Support for Hamas in Gaza and West Bank.
International support
More attacks on Jews
Stripping Israel of its legitimacy

 

No thinking needed - and quit using the term "the Jews" as no one is suggesting "the Jews did anything" It is the IDF.
And it is not Supposedly - I have given you numerous examples - it is demonstrable fact.

What part of 27 Israeli Pilots refusing to continue dropping 1000 lb bombs on innocent civilians - did you not understand from one of the links posted - or any of the other not made up examples.

What part of " almost every nation in the world" has condemned some of these actions - is too much for your brain to handle. Even the US has condemned Israel - when things got really bad.

As stated - you are in denial - desperately trying to wish the facts away - because they do not fit in with the spoon fed propaganda narrative you have been ingesting.

What part of The US-El Saud - are the biggest State Sponsors of Terror and Terrorists on the Planet - is not getting through?

Ding Ding Ding --- time to wake up and smell the flatus.

 

Israel's motive in targeting civilians is simple and clear: to break the will to resist. This is not exclusive to Israel. This is why the atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It wasn't to kill soldiers! It was to end the fight by raising the toll to something that was seen as unbearable by the enemy. The exact policy Israel pursues against Hezbollah, both during the 2006 war (when it targeted even Christian communities to make them put pressure on Hezbollah not to fight Israel) and why Israel's main threat against Hezbollah is that if Hezbollah fires at Israel from Lebanon, Israel will destroy Lebanon!

A nation that doesn't need or want to threaten killing civilians wouldn't stockpile nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons, unlike the ones Iran is focused on developing and takes great pride in (i.e., precision guided missiles), aren't meant to destroy military targets. Even the so-called 'tactical nuclear weapons' aren't all that tactical, but the rest are simply weapons of terror.

Whoever stockpiles those weapons is clearly saying: I am willing to kill civilians, children, and more -- intentionally, by design. Especially those whose military doctrine is known to rely on nuclear weapons even to be used in a first strike and not merely to deter a nuclear attack.

My own 'religious' views are different from Iran's leadership: Iran refused to retaliate in kind against the extensive use of chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq war, finding such weapons immoral. And Iran's Supreme Leader has issued a religious edict banning the building or stockpiling of nuclear weapons for the reason I alluded to. I don't agree with it and sincerely hope that Iran abandons this policy of unilateral disarmament against weapons of mass destruction. But that is Iran's policy and it has adhered to it, as foolish as it might be.

 

Left unsaid in this report by the Daily Beast (which, while informed by facts, pushes its own propaganda narrative), is a discussion about these Russian oligarchs who are looking to make money from Russia's venture in Syria. That is an important part of the whole story because, if you follow it, you will see these folks are the same "Russian-Israeli" billionaires who had developed ties with the Trump administration even before Trump took office and had worked on the deal they wanted between the US and Russia: for the US to hand over Syria to the Russians (along with other things relating to the Ukraine and US sanctions), for the Russians in return to kick out Iran from Syria -- while they all make more money in the process. Assad and Iran, so far (or at least until recently, as I am not sure if Iran has capitulated already), the main obstacles to their plans!

The propaganda (and failure to touch the real story behind all of it which I alluded to) aside, this is probably the best account on what is going on regarding Russia, Syria, Iran and Assad. A lot better than the Haartez report I had cited earlier in some ways (if you factor out the anti-Assad bias), as it actually does a better job describing Malhouf (Assad's cousin who has fallen out of favor with Assad) then the misdirection reports about him elsewhere.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-is-turning-against-iranand-assadin-syria
After Five Bloody Years in Syria, Russia Is Turning Against Iran—and Assad
Vladimir Putin wants a stable Syria, with billions from abroad for his oligarch cronies to rebuild the country. But Assad's infamy and the ayatollahs stand in the way.

 

You're just here ranting personal attacks.

 

Israel is Colonising Palestine replacing the people of the area.

They are the indigenous people of the area and have been held prisoner for over 50 years while Israel takes their land against International law. Those of Palestinian descent living in Israel have second degree citizenship.

Although some people say Israel has had the upper hand except for 48, in reality in 48 Israel had a bigger military and after the truce better weapons. The people she keeps prisoner do not have the ability to protect themselves and the intent is that they never will.

Indeed the intent in the long term is to get them all removed from the land and replaced with basically Israeli Jews - there is no other way of putting that. Israel does not intend on allowing non Jews to have proper rights. Indeed there is already talk of removing their citizenship. Israel is an apartheid state. Basically she wants Palestinians off the land. an example. The Great March. Israel deliberately killed people just for marching. This was decided before it began. Among the people Israel killed were children, the disabled, medics and the press. Israel claimed that she knew who everyone she killed was. These people were killed for protesting that Israel will not allow them onto land which is legally theirs and which they have a legal right to. Thousands more were given life changing injuries due to Israel using bullets which exploded inside on them. The US Condoned this killing of innocents. Obviously every single person who can get out of Gaza does. I understand that Israelis themselves say 'go to Gaza' meaning 'go to hell'. Making the place impossible to live in is obviously part of Israel's strategy to get people to leave so that she can have the land. The US has made it so that while it has the power Israel can ignore all International Law and take all the land and resources of the Palestinians she wants while keeping them prisoner. So many people have been prisoners all their lives simply because of their ethnicity. That is just a start.

At Oslo they knew they were defeated. Jabotinsky knew that it was stupid to expect the Palestinians to agree to giving up their land. He knew no people ever would. However he also was correct that a time would come when they would know they were beaten. At that time they would be willing to come to a deal and things would be sorted. That time resulted in Oslo when the Palestinians agreed to give up 78% of their ancient homeland in return for 22% of it in a continuous way leading to a viable state. This was just a play from Israel for more time to occupy more land and get 'facts on the ground'. The US has always allowed this, not least because of the extremist Christian Zionists whose vote is needed.

Hama's original Charter was a response to the Likud's one.

They changed it some years ago to properly reflect their position

Well they don't say that but I hear you have dehumanised the Palestinians. That is a necessity when it is wanted to act in an inhumane way towards a people.

https://www.democracynow.org/2008/4/3/headlines/leader_hamas_would_accept_state_on_67_borders

Henry Siegman, Leading Voice of U.S. Jewry, on Gaza: “A Slaughter of Innocents”

 

Half of all UN resolutions against a single country have been against Israel.
It's odd - Israeli Palestinians have declared they don't want to be under West
Bank control with a condemnation like that? Why not?
Hamas murders dissidents, attacks civilians, uses children as human shields
and engages in appalling racism, sexism and the like.
Where is the condemnation?
China puts Muslims into concentration camps, Russia kills its dissidents (even
doctors now) Iran persecutes Sunnis and Bahai. Sudan has child soldiers. Sth
Africa is killing white farmers. Pakistan is Terror Central. Saudi stones gays.
India still has a caste system. Syria murdered its protestors. Cuba is a Communist
dictatorship. Bolivia is a narco-state and so on, so on. But half of all the world's
atrocities come from tiny, democratic Israel. Not likely - this is the oldest game in
the world - anti-Semitism.

 

It's odd, but then maybe not, that Arabs are "indigenous" but Jews are not.
Arabs arrived in the Levant during the great Muslim colonization in the 7th
Century (on their way to conquer Europe BTW) and Jews have been in the
Levant since the Bronze Age.
Not sure how Jews are "replacing" Arabs - there's more Arabs in Palestine
today than ever before. Thanks in part to Israel's medical facilities (400,000
Arab visitors a year) and the standard of living largely given by Israel.
Facts, please, not racism.

 

The Arabs arrived in the Levant when the Palestinians were already there. The Jewish colonizers arrived from Russia / Western countries by the millions in Israel replacing the Palestinians who were already there. Replacing Palestinians through terror, war crimes / refusing to commit to the Geneva Conventions / ignoring the UN ... due to racism of Israel. Those are the facts.

 

So what. Israel refuses to comply with the UN and the Geneva Conventions. So than that's what you get.
Israel simply ethnically cleansed +700.000 Arabs who may not return because of their ethnic background.
Israel illegally colonized Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Golan. It's not Israel. Their citizens living there is a war crime.

So fake. The UN created and recognized Israel decades before they did the same of Palestine. How on earth could that be if the UN = the world is anti-Semitic. Total bs from a group of fanatics you parrot who wish to go ethnic cleansing around without any opposition.

 

No, you are not correct. Haven't you read the bible stories of Joshua,
King David and Isaiah? Never heard of the Jewish temple and the town
of Bethlehem where Jesus was born? These were Jews, not Canaanites
and certainly not Arabs.
Jews have RETURNED to Israel (though some Jews never left) having
been evicted from 120 nations over 2,000 years. They are back home,
as their prophets said they would, and they aren't going anywhere soon.

Arabs rejected the UN partition. It was to share Palestine with two peoples.
They tried to slaughter the Jews but failed. They have been treated fairly
well considering they are a conquered people. Many others would have
simply driven them out or killed them all (think Mongols, Huns, Bantus etc..)