J.C.Penny and Sears too

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Moi621, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Having just read that Sears is going under, and lamenting each passing of
    J.C.Penny the following is proposed.

    Down sized mini mall stores. With catalogue departments and more central large stores.
    Both have a "brand" name such a Kenmore that are trusted.
    Don't abandon it. Adapt. Mini-mall stores for the basics people like and on.
    Don't cut back over department store failure.
    Build more, lesser stores. More presence. Not less.


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g

    No Canada-1.png
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
  2. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    JC Penney had a CEO not too long ago that ran it into the ground.
    Sears suffered a leveraged buyout by KMart, hardly a paragon of value.
    Both are products of mis-management.
     
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  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The problem is far more fundamental than most realize. Consumption (demand) is crashing compared to what is needed to maintain a robust capitalist economy. Consequently there are over 1,000 big store locations closing as companies struggle to cut back on costs so that the bottom line can be improved in the face of the decline in consumption.

    J.C. Penneys - 138 locations closing
    Macy’s - 68
    K-Mart - 108
    Sears - 42
    H.H. Gregg - 88
    MC Sports - 68
    Gander Mountain - 32
    Radio Shack - 187
    Payless - 500

    http://usat.ly/2nMSNrt

    Get ready for the next crash. It will be worse than 2008 and may even make the G.D. look good. And it's probably coming this year.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The root problem is mismanagement...poor business decisions...reckless expansion...little concern for high debt...and the stupidity of believing business will forever and always increase.
     
  5. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Anyone know who still makes buggy whips?

    Obama did the right thing when he got the economic stimulus passed in 2009. The problem NO ONE foresaw is that the people (consumers) and business owners (investment) didn't believe Obama knew what he was doing when he ALSO pushed Obamacare through, with 1000's of new regulations, during the same period. That sort of nixed the stimulus. It also didn't help that Obama's stimulus package primarily went to people that helped him get elected, aka "pork." Some even went out of business within a year of receiving stimulus funds, like Solyndra ($535 million), SunPower ($1.2 billion) and First Solar ($1.46 billion). There's a list of 36 such failures in the link below published in 2012.

    http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/list-36-obama-s-taxpayer-funded-green-energy-failures

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  6. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I doubt that. And the answer is Amazon which is booming
     
  7. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anything tethered to a mall is going down the drain. JCP and Sears both abandoned free standing stores and fled to malls in the 80's and 90's. I guess that is where they felt they would get a lot of casual shoppers but that comes with a very hefty price tag.
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I only checked SunPower to find the company is doing just fine? SunPower received NO stimulus funds but they did obtain $100 million from Wells Fargo for specific solar projects which are owned by Wells Fargo and NOT SunPower. BTW; during the last recession, many companies were faltering from a lack of consumer spending. And in what way did SunPower 'help' Obama??
     
  9. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    The link I posted says otherwise. Guess who I believe.

    Steve
     
  10. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    That's what sears gets for dropping their USA made Craftsman tools and replacing them with china chincy trash..
     
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  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    as more jobs go overseas, people have less to spend, the less people have to spend the more corps have to ship jobs overseas, and on it goes
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that too, easy to order on-line, and for the same cost or less...
     
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    * Craftsman, Craftsman Professional and Craftsman Industrial Hand Tools, Mechanic's Tool Sets, Sockets/Ratchets and Drive Tools, Wrenches (Non-Torque), Auto/Specialty (Non-Electrical, Non-Hydraulic, Non-Pneumatic)

    CRAFTSMAN HAND TOOL FULL WARRANTY
    If this hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction it will be repaired or replaced free of charge.

    If Craftsman tools continue to have a lifetime warranty what is the issue with products made in China?
     
  15. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much the lowest unemployment rate in a long time so why would people have 'less to spend'?
     
  16. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Well, their are a lot of reasons.. I'll go into a couple..

    Tools are something many serious tradesmen take great pride in, they are often heirloom pieces..
    My father told me "tools are an extension of a mans hand", a man is only as useful as his tools..
    To take pride in your work it helps a lot to take pride in your tools. If you are using junk tools they often cause problems and frustrate the worker..
    Good tools are also known to hold significant resale value..

    Also, in many trades a mans tools must be as reliable as a warriors weapon.. Failure of a tool can be failure of a job and can cause significant downtime.. A $50 difference in a tool can cost thousands in lost profits.. No company in their right mind is going to spend thousands to ship a field maintenance man out into the middle of nowhere with inferior tools that may stop the job in its tracks..

    Many regular tool users are also quite patriotic, many have completely quit sears due to their outsourcing..

    Another thing.. China sears tools are often absolutely incapable of doing the same job a quality tool will.. No amount of warranty in the world wil make those tools perform any better.. Crap tools often damage the piece being worked on and present significant risk of injury to the worker. Tools slipping and breaking can really hurt you..

    Tool culture is much like gun culture, you wouldn't really understand if you don't know it..

    Do some reasearch on SK tools and see how successful they have been sticking to a USA manufacturing strategy..

    Tool users are American workers that care about American jobs..
     
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  17. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Also, what's really ****ed about craftsman is that a lot lot lot of people own GOOD old craftsman tools and now if you warranty a tool you get back a piece of junk rather than the initial quality you purchased....

    How would you like it if their was a recall on your Mercedes Benz and they exchanged it for an isuzu ?
     
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your thoughtful response.

    Here's the bottom line; almost nothing built today, no matter if in the USA or offshore, is equal to the quality of the same items built long ago. Do you think a Mercedes today is built as well as those built in the 70's or 80's? All manufacturers are forced to make adjustments over time as competition, technology, and costs demand. Sear's is identical to all other companies; either compete or close the doors. Sear's and other companies DO NOT get a wild hair up their ass one day and decide to build offshore...99% of the time they have no choice. I don't know the quality of today's Craftsman tools but if you don't like them then buy something else instead of complaining about Sears. There is some logic which you cannot ignore; Sear's would not be able to offer a lifetime warranty if the products were crap! The costs of replacement and processing would force them to stop the warranty program! Logic therefore dictates that the Craftsmen's tools must be pretty good. Will they perform on all jobs...who knows? Look, I own tools and guns so I understand their evolution over the past several decades.

    Which tools people choose is up to them and they can decide by price, quality, color, where they are made, warranty, etc. Those who wish to buy USA should do so but not judge others who are fine with selecting anything that is available...
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I think you are over-reacting on this since they're just tools. I own older Craftsman tools and if I need to replace any of them I have no problem getting their newer tools with the same lifetime warranty. Products are allowed to change, sometimes good and sometimes bad, and this is guaranteed to happen, so it's each consumer's choice what they wish to do. Bad-mouthing a product without long-term facts about their quality or performance is just whining...
     
  20. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Check out the recent advances in flank drive plus and wright grip..
    Check out the new dual 80s and sk x beam advancements in pawl technology..

    Sears is going under remember, maybe their lifetime warranty is failing them, or their profit margin on china tools could be enough to afford to replace them, don't know..

    I think the biggest thing is that american tool users, workers, like to support American workers, tool makers..

    I don't buy sears tools, my recent new tool purchases have been Proto and Stahlwille..

    Craftsman shot themselves in the foot going to china because they lost a whole lot of loyal craftsman buyers on principle..
    Not to mention all the gimmick crap they try to shill these days..
     
  21. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    This line of thinking has sears going bankrupt..
    Sure, their are plenty of non-USA tool companies that offer lifetime warranties..
    Most stuff from your big box stores like husky, napa Carlisle, harbor freight, plenty of options..
    Sears is also loosing to them big time because their quality is better..

    They are marketed to carpenters and homegamers..

    Then you have a whole other class for professional mechanics such as snap-on, mac, matco..
    Then you have a class for professional industrial trades such as wright, and proto..

    It's different if you are serious with your tools or just playing around..
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Sear's is not closing because of Craftsman tools?

    Sear's is losing because of incompetent management and shifts in how people shop.

    Doesn't Sear's sell an industrial grade Craftsman tool?
     
  23. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    About the same way mcdonalds serves gourmet meals...
     
  24. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I were a billionaire and somebody gave me any name brand store to do with as I pleased, I would pick Sears. I think they are salvageable as a brand. It would require a radical move like abandoning all mall stores and most big markets and go back to servicing more rural communities, which of course, they will never do.
     
  25. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    That and go back to the modern version of mail order, which was their start. (modern version of mail order being online). They need to figure out how to rehabilitate their repair service business. I know my parents used to buy from them because of that. Family dealings with Sears in the last 10 or 15 years were terrible, primarily because they have given up on that.
     
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