Jesus Transformed

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Jonsa, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought this was a rather astute observation. Truly its a different kinda jesus some people are selling these days.




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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "limited government" part of it goes back to abuses of government in early church history, and culminating in Europe when Christianity started gaining more power and could confront some of the abuses of kings. (In older times, it was common for governments to want to control religion)

    Then there was the whole Communist Civil War in Spain. The Communists set their sights on stamping out religion, due to their ideology, and social totalitarian tendencies, and so the Catholics sided with the Fascists.

    There have been some pretty bad abuses against Christians in the past Soviet Union, in China as late as the 80s, and North Korea. So there obviously is some pattern there.

    In Latin America, local Catholic clergy have generally played a more neutral Third Party role (often standing for social justice and oppressed poor, while remaining somewhat socially conservative or moderate), but in some of those countries have still been targeted at times by Leftist insurgents.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also most real Christians oppose prosperity gospel doctrine, although it's been creeping into mega-sized evangelical churches.
    It certainly depends on the church, affiliation, and what exactly is meant by "prosperity gospel" as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also numerous studies that show Christians, as a statistical group, are much more likely to adopt children or give to charity than their Liberal counterparts.

    Liberals may demand money be given to the poor, but they don't want to personally do it.

    People like Bill Gates are the exception, and even with him, if you look at where most of the foundation money goes, more of it goes to Liberal pet initiatives than actually trying to send it directly to the poor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ironically, much of the individual Western philosophical thought originated, in some way, out of Christianity.
    Even though the Catholic Church was very collectivist in some ways. (But keep in mind much of this philosophy also originated out of Protestantism)

    It may have to do with the "innate God-given rights of man", since religion could be cited as a source where these rights come from, and Judeo-Christian thought sets its own standards of morality that are different from arbitrary government set laws.

    Oh, and of course certainly the Christian understanding of the innate flawedness of human nature.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    What are some specific examples?
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Having no problem with associating various current events and situations to larger insightful observations, I see examples play out daily. Pehaps you just need to sharpen your observational skills.

    But hint, Evangelical supporters of Trump are perfectly comfortable with the 100,000 thousand children who have been forcefully separated from their parents by this administration. Does that one hit you over the head? or is there some evangelical apologetics that excuses such unchristian behavior?
     
  8. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Jesus didn't come as a servant to the poor.
    Remember how he served the centurion?

    Remember how he served the rich young ruler.

    Jesus came to serve everyone.


    Guns are guaranteed by the constitution

    Anti science? That's BS. What's going on is political operatives grabbing onto scientists theiries they like and beating up religion with them. It has nothing to do with Christians being anti science.

    Limited government also in the constitution.
    Ohh and Christians do far more for the destitute than you do.

    Yeah so Mr Wilson can take his tweet and put it back where it came from his ass.
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    but the bible says God picks governments - and going against the government is going against God

    how many politicians claim God told them to run... lol, usually the crazy ones
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  10. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting interpretation ya got goin' there.

    • Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses. — Proverbs 28:27
    • Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
    • Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the Lord will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
    • If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk, and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday. The Lord will guide you always; he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose waters never fail. — Isaiah 58:6-11
    • Give generously to [the poor] and do so without a grudging heart, then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land. — Deuteronomy 15:10-11
     
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Interpretation? No i just told you factually what Jesus did..

    No one has denied that God wants us to be good to the poor. You know what? Americans are!

    Government compelling people to take care of the poor is not what Jesus taught.

    When you give a poor man with a sign a burger. Thats what Jesus meant. What happens after that? The man is still poor.
    The existence of the poor is not an indication that Americans lack generosity towards the poor.

    Nice try using Jesus as a political tool to beat up on Christians. But FAIL.
    Off and my not wanting to get taxed more is not an indication that i don't care about the poor. Looks like you got your ideas from the same place mr Wilson did..
     
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  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Biblical Christian doctrine is not concerned with such issues. Please provide a relevant verse if you think it does.
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    According to the fairy tale, the Jesus character never gave anyone anything. When he had the opportunity to do so he said that he needed it more than the poor did because the poor would always exist. He is not a good example of a charitable person.
     
  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Unpopular teachings of Jesus.

    Jesus defies science!
    45 Immediately Jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to Bethsaida, he dismissed the crowd. 46 After leaving them, he went up on a mountainside to pray
    47 Later that night, the boat was in the middle of the lake, and he was alone on land. 48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. Shortly before dawn he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them, 49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, 50 because they all saw him and were terrified.


    Nothing on earth is worth a damn ( literally)

    4 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

    5. One man one woman until death

    5 “It was because your hearts were hard 8 and the two will become one flesh So they are no longer two, but one flesh.But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 8 and the two will become one flesh 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

    5. Getting into heaven is impossible

    The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

    26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

    27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”


    Should I go on?? I could talk about how the Devil used words from the bible to do evil, as a matter of fact that's kinda his MO from the beginning.. I wonder if Mr Wilson thought about that before he quoted the bible?
     
  15. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Look at it this way, God picked Mr Carter, Mr Raygun, Bush SR , Mr Clinton, Mr Bush jr ( sent Gore and Hillary to Abrams bossom) Obama and now Trump

    Now we must decide are we screwing up?
     
  16. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    would you care to actually quote the passage?
     
  17. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Just go with it, next the TW will say jesus illegally entered Rome
     
  18. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    People are always trying to rewrite Jesus and invent a 'New Improved Hippie Jesus' since the 'old' one refuses to embrace NAMBLA, pot, and other stuff neo-Pagans like.

    The Bible is not a list of unconnected individual verses, either, they weren't originally numbered, they were parts of entire stories, and should read as such, part of entire stories, not isolated sentences; the numbering system, and the concept of 'book's for that matter, came along later as a convenience for references.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't forget it was Democrat judges who blocked Trump from being able to release these children back south of the border.

    These judges would rather see these children suffer and create a migrant crisis than have them sent back. They're just sour about these families not being automatically released into the interior of the US anymore, like they were during the Obama Administration.
     
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  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only in the same sense that God allows sin.

    That's a more complicated subject, and we could get into some pretty deep philosophical/religious discussion about that.

    You are at least partially right, up to a point.
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    everything is complicated, remember the babies are a gift from God and when asked if God did not support same gender couples why he would gift a lesbian woman with a child how upset some got
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sure

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13:1&version=NIV

    "
    Romans 13:1 New International Version (NIV)
    13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    "
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Jesus character also said that if a guy died then his brothers had to marry his widow in sequence. Do you want to marry your sisters in-law?

    Did Jesus think that he was going to enter the kingdom of God because he was a poor homeless freeloader?
     
  24. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Good job,

    On that context, what would you say about a successful revolution? Are the rebels alwsys wrong. Or does their success mean they are right?
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well according to the bible, I guess the ones in power would always be God's picks
     

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