"Jews who lived in Africa and the Middle East during WWII are also holocaust survivors"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ForumPoster, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. ForumPoster

    ForumPoster Banned

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    Sergio Della Pergola, who is a professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, says that jews who lived in Africa and the Middle East during WWII should also be considered "holocaust survivors":

    Who Counts as a Holocaust Survivor?

    https://www.haaretz.com/who-counts-as-a-holocaust-survivor-1.119868
    But not everyone agrees with Della Pergola. Here's what Dr. Irit Abramski Bligh, who heads Yad Vashem's Arab states division, has to say:
    And here's what prof. Yehuda Bauer has to say:
    What do you think, my fellow PF members? Should jews who lived in Africa and the Middle East during WWII also be considered "holocaust survivors"? As always, all opinions are welcome.
     
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  2. ForumPoster

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    .
    Interestingly, you can be a "holocaust survivor" even if you were born after WWII, like the jewish journalist Daniel Pearl who was born in 1963:
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3388372,00.html

    [​IMG]

    Unbelievable, folks. Unbelievable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  3. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Academia is full of people with pet hack theories. This isn't unusual or interesting
     
  4. ForumPoster

    ForumPoster Banned

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    But don't you think it's strange/funny/interesting that jews who were born after WWII are considered "holocaust survivors"? I mean, really?
     
  5. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    They're not. This person is a hack
     
  6. ForumPoster

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  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that Germany has already paid its debt in full.

    It's time for the holocaust industry to clean up its own house:


    "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298



    EXCERPT "Writing to the Claims Conference’s board last week, recently terminated ombudsman Shmuel Hollander asserted that, while reports had said organizational insiders had siphoned off $57 million in German taxpayer funds meant for survivors, “the final sum is in all probability much higher.”

    ”CONTINUED
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course it's absurd but accounts for the inflated number of "6 Million"

    Is it true that one has to be Jewish to be entitled to reparations?
     
  9. ForumPoster

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    .
    Here's a typical "holocaust survivor", Irene Zisblatt, who claims that diamonds came out of her anus over and over again when she was in a "concentration camp":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Zisblatt


    Irene Zisblatt. "Trust me."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't for get these classics:

    “Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust”

    http://balder.org/judea/The-Most-Fan...e-Miracles.php

    EXCERPTS:

    • Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen



    • William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years



    • Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis



    • Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses



    • Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated



    • Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED
     
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  11. ForumPoster

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  12. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    I'm often pretty skeptical of the relevance of your "This one Jew did really bad things" threads ForumPoster, but this one is solid. Exposing Holocaust exploitation is an absolute must.

    From the "Jewish refugees were refused entry during muh Holocaust therefore we should admit infinity refugees in Europe from the war that we started ourselves", to "Assad has something that looks like crematory ovens therefore we should invade Syria with our good friends ISIS", to milking infinite shekels from Germany with all the survivors that remain of something 75 years ago (apparently concentration camps extend life), the list of Holocaust abuse sure is a sight to behold.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who says crime doesn't pay. The following example is a bizarre instance in which crime not only pays but is rewarded.....only in the Holocaust Industry.

    EXCERPT " If anything, they have argued, Germany agreed to pay even more after the fraud was discovered than it had done in previous years."

    A cursory reading of the entire article below reveals multiple instances of theft, fraud, & forgery that occur within the
    "Holocaust Claims Commission" from which it has profited rather than faced just prosecution.

    "GERMANY SEEKS COMPENSATION FOR $ 57M HOLOCAUST FRAUD"

    https://forward.com/news/world/218743/claims-conference-to-repay-germany-57m-for-fraud/

    EXCERPT "Now, a letter obtained by the Forward indicates that more than a year and a half after the conviction of the fraud’s ringleader, Germany demanded compensation from the Claims Conference — and appears to have found a way to do so that allows the Claims Conference to avoid the awkward appearance of sending money meant for survivors back to Germany.

    The Claims Conference board is made up of representatives of more than 25 Jewish organizations from around the world. Many board members did not respond to a request for comment. Most of those who did respond spoke only off the record or declined to comment.

    In recent years, Claims Conference officials have pointed to Germany’s willingness to keep paying Holocaust restitution as a symbol that the fraud has had no repercussions.

    If anything, they have argued, Germany agreed to pay even more after the fraud was discovered than it had done in previous years."CONTINUED
     
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  14. ForumPoster

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    Here in Europe, you can actually go to prison for doubting these "holocaust" stories.

    German woman, 89, jailed for 14 months for Holocaust denial

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-woman-89-jailed-for-14-months-for-holocaust-denial/

    'Nazi Grandma' loses appeal case, sentenced to 14 months in prison for Holocaust denial

    http://www.dw.com/en/nazi-grandma-l...ths-in-prison-for-holocaust-denial/a-41565036

    [​IMG]
    ^
    This 89-year-old woman is sent to prison because jews are offended by her opinions. Do you think that that's right, folks?
     
  15. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Did you even bother to read the link? There is precisely one lunatic "researcher" claiming that North African jews should be considered holocaust survivors, the theory roundly rejected by actual Holocaust survivors, Holocaust researchers and pretty much everyone else who matters. Your initial "skepticism" with regards to ForumPoster's forum posts was spot onand it certainly should include this thread.
     
  16. ForumPoster

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    Borat, do you think it's right that an 89-year-old woman is sent to prison because jews are offended by her opinions?
     
  17. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    The problem goes deeper than that.

    As you see, the difference between the two academics is not that big :

    Quote : "On Ukeles' count, there are 687,900 Holocaust survivors in the world today. DellaPergola's estimate is much larger: 1,092,000 survivors."

    Right now, already any Jew who lived in Europe any any moment during WW2 is considered a Holocaust survivor, even the vast majority who weren't deported. They simply want to extend this to Africa.
     
  18. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    they aren't?
    oh i see, only those who went to concentration camps and the ovens qualify. Those who "merely" survived the Holocaust in Nazi occupied Europe aren't Holocaust survivors. Got it.

    They who? One lunatic suggested that, THEY roundly dismissed it as utter nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  19. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    Lol. For someone who accuses others of not reading the link, you sure have some reading issues of your own.

    "All these Jews faced immediate physical dangers, and so all should be called, in symbolic and historical senses, Holocaust victims," says Dr. Aryeh Barnea, a legal expert and Holocaust researcher. Such recognition, he stresses, does not have legal validity. "In order to receive legal recognition as a survivor, a person needs to prove that he or she physically suffered, and was persecuted by the Nazis," says Barnea.

    "As I see it," says Bauer, "Holocaust survivors are only those people who were physically persecuted by the Nazis or their cohorts. This means people who lived in ghettos and concentration camps or compulsory labor frameworks, who hid or who joined the partisan ranks. I don't mean to denigrate the suffering of people who suffered from race laws and anti-Semitic decree, or those who fled with nothing in their possession, but these are not Holocaust survivors."

    My position on who is a Holocaust survivor is the exact same as the position of the Jews quoted in the article.

    What I believe however is that the number of Holocaust survivors is surprisingly large and just doesn't add up. Even with the number of Holocaust survivors that is considered as valid in the article (687,900), that makes 4.2% of the world Jewish population (of approx 16 million). That number of 4.2% is not that far from the percentage of people older than 75 years old on the American age pyramid, which is around 6%. So I am very skeptical of the claim that more than 2/3rds of Jews who lived during WW2 (in the entire world that is, not just Europe) are "Holocaust survivors" under the definition above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  20. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    You should read more carefully ;) the 687,900 and 1,092,000 numbers were suggested by two researchers (the difference was North Africa) and both researches/numbers were soundly rejected by Holocaust survivors and leading mainstream Holocaust experts, as the OP article and your quotes above confirm.

    At any rate, this Holocaust survivor status is an internal Jewish matter, it does not affect anyone else or any other country. I am not sure why you care whom Jews consider a Holocaust survivor and whom they don't.... but that being said, the burden of proof is pretty high, even in Israel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RE:
    It certainly affects innocent young German taxpayers who have to bankroll this rotten-to-the-core extortion racket:

    The disgusting outcome of this particular fraudulent incident is that: "...Germany agreed to pay even more after the fraud was discovered than it had done in previous years."


    "GERMANY SEEKS COMPENSATION FOR $ 57M HOLOCAUST FRAUD"

    https://forward.com/news/world/218743/claims-conference-to-repay-germany-57m-for-fraud/

    EXCERPT "Now, a letter obtained by the Forward indicates that more than a year and a half after the conviction of the fraud’s ringleader, Germany demanded compensation from the Claims Conference — and appears to have found a way to do so that allows the Claims Conference to avoid the awkward appearance of sending money meant for survivors back to Germany.

    The Claims Conference board is made up of representatives of more than 25 Jewish organizations from around the world. Many board members did not respond to a request for comment. Most of those who did respond spoke only off the record or declined to comment.

    In recent years, Claims Conference officials have pointed to Germany’s willingness to keep paying Holocaust restitution as a symbol that the fraud has had no repercussions.

    If anything, they have argued, Germany agreed to pay even more after the fraud was discovered than it had done in previous years."CONTINUED
     
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  22. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Absolutely not. German reparations are designated to very narrowly defined groups of European jews (i.e. displaced, concentration camp survivors, forced labor etc) and Israel's or any other country's/organization's definition of Holocaust survivor has absolutely no relevance on the way these reparations are disbursed. Like I said, this holocaust survivor definition debate is totally internal to jewish community and Israel, it does not affect anyone else.
     
  23. ForumPoster

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    Now that's truly mind-boggling and sickening.
     
  24. ForumPoster

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    Jewish lobbyists often do ridiculous things to keep the holocaust in the spotlight, like when someone came up with the "brilliant" idea to have deaf Germans apologize to deaf jews for not being able to save their fellow tribesmen:
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3590158,00.html

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  25. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm beginning to think that there wouldn't have been a holocaust if the Allied powers had not been so grasping, aggressive & abusive after WW1.

    England, the US & France etc should have at least looked at any number of Hitler's Peace plans that he repeatedly proposed as early as 1933.

    "HITLER'S PEACE PLAN REJECTED"
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/hitlers-peace-plan-rejected.520246/


    "What the World Rejected: Hitler’s Peace Offers 1933–1940"
    https://www.amazon.com/What-World-Rejected-Hitlers-1933-1940-ebook/dp/B00M5K8OEM

    EXCERPT " Written by Germany’s foremost diplomatic historian of the early twentieth century, this work maps out all the numerous times that Adolf Hitler made unconditional offers of peace to all the nations of Europe—and how the major anti-German belligerents, France and Britain, turned down these offers each and every time.

    The author lists all of Hitler’s offers in detail, complete with quotes, starting with his first offer of May 17, 1933, his second offer of December 18, 1933, his third offer of May 21, 1935, his fourth offer of March 31, 1936, his fifth offer of September 30, 1938, his sixth offer of December 6, 1938, his seventh offer of late 1939 to Poland to settle the Danzig Corridor issue peacefully, and finally, his offer of world peace on October 6, 1939, just over a month after Britain and France had declared war on Germany for invading Poland on September 1 (but not on the Soviet Union, which also invaded Poland on September 17).

    This edition benefits from four new sections which did not appear in the original publication. These are:

    - The full text of Hitler’s “Appeal for Peace and Sanity” speech, made before the Reichstag on July 19, 1940, following the fall of France. In that speech, Hitler once again offered unconditional peace to Britain. This speech was printed in English and dropped by the tens of thousands from German aircraft over Britain. Although nearly half the British cabinet wanted to take up his offer, Churchill’s warmongering put an end to this final offer of peace;"CONTINUED
     

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