My opinion..a person doesnt do "body art" if they know who they are and are comfortable with who they are. In the not too distant past as i understand it, that was for prisoners, sailors, circus people, nobody with any class at all would to body art. What do you think it says about a person who wants to do that to themselves? What about the future, when the current fad has passed. Would you want the mother of your child to be decorated so? perhaps all over he body and face? Why, why not? do you feel more respect for a person why does that, or less? Do you need to respect a person to have sex with them? How about if you wish to marry the person?
visible tattoos are ways for potential employees to break ties with other qualified candidates without "skin art"
I'm sorry, we're not hiring, but we will put your application on file in case something opens up in the future.
The artistic ones will lose every time, when Im deciding. So will the obese ones. Any indication of poor physical health, that is self inflicted is a sign of poor mental health too. A loser.
Just saying - - - Updated - - - Glad to know you judge a book by it's cover and not actually looking at the qualifications of said person
And nice to know you grasp sarcasm as such, if not when it is appropriate. Even now? Sorry i didnt specify I was following the theme of the post i responded to. The subject was all things being equal, the artistic ones are gonna lose. Same with the ones who overtly display poor physical and mental health any other way. The cover is often a real good way to judge. If there's a cover picture of the maiden looking out over the sea, with a mist shrouded castle in the background, its near certainly not about auto mechanics. Look at me and you'd say "cheerleader" not "defensive tackler' or whatever they are called. The untidy applicant is saying he doesnt take the application seriously. In the case of competitive grants, they often make a lot of specific requirements for the cover page; they look at that first, and if the applicant doesnt get it right, circular file. A person has to know when and how to read the cover, like a lot of other things that require some judgement and discretion. Any prob with that?
You do realize it's the internet and not all sarcasm can clearly be read especially on an internet message board right, especially on this message board where you see crazy stuff being written by people here and they actually mean it.
Your sarcasm was plain enough, so, I offered a bit of obvious same in return, asked if we are even now. As for what i said about mental and physical health as reflected in a person's presentation, I meant it.
So once again, you just assume about the person instead of actually knowing what has caused any of that
Which, entertainingly enough for a moment, is what you are doing, assuming again. i guess this isnt going to go anywhere. the HR person's job is not to be a doctor or shrink or a social worker.
"As for what i said about mental and physical health as reflected in a person's presentation, I meant it" I am looking at your own words. When it comes to job hiring, everything should taken into consideration. I don't automatically look at a bigger person and assume they can't take care of themselves and that they wouldn't do a good job for the work they are applying for.
That is cool, this did start with the premise of 'other things being equal". It is not of course possible to take everything into consideration. But sure, everyone should be given a fair chance. My take is that if there are two otherwise equal candidates and one presents as having issues, i will take the one who does not.
No one is arguing that a person who doesn't look the part, can't play the part. Certainly a highly skilled and trained, whatever, can and will do just as well as anyone else. I'm not, and I wager most would not, suggest other wise. That's not point. The point is, you are arguing against human nature. Humans judge based on appearances. Always have. Always will. This is not going to change any time in the near or distant future, anymore than it has never been different throughout all of human history. Am I saying that 'you can't have tattoos!"? No. That's not my point. Am I saying that "you must conform to society!"? No. That's not the point either. My point is, I suggest you should accept the fact that you will be judged based on what you look like. If you want to be mad and angry, that's your choice, that's fine... but understand you being upset, will never change the reality. You'll just be mad. So I suggest instead of being mad, just accept it, and move on. "Well I should be able to do whatever I want and never have anyone judge me!" Again... my point is, it's not going to change, no matter how much you want it to. So your only options are A: Be angry and miserable until you die. B: Accept reality, be happy, and make the best of your choice. C: Choose to conform and be happy. Two options you'll be happy. One option you'll be mad and bitter for life. Free country, choose whichever you wish. And by the way, EVERYONE... as in.... *EVERYONE* judges based on looks. They all do. Even the people who hate it, do it. For example, I read the story about a girl who got some tattoos on her lower legs. She talked about how all of a sudden all these people who had never paid her any attention before, were all buddy buddy with her. Now for her, the entire situation was actually a bit depressing, because she realized that none of these people actually knew her, or liked her. They were 'friends' only because she looked like them, in that she had a tattoo, and they had tattoos. To the point that she had laser treatment to burn off the tattoo, and as she expected, all of her 'friends' disappeared with the tattoo. They were all making a judgement call based on how she looked. They treated her differently based on her looks. Instead of having a lower opinion based on tattoos, they had a higher opinion. She was exactly the same in either case. Another example was a guy on a video who is in the music industry. And the person interviewing him, ask why he changed how he looked, because when he first started out he has a causal look. He explained that he cut his hair, and dressed in snazzy outfits, because if he didn't the kids wouldn't buy his music. He wasn't hip enough, just looking like a singer with a really good voice. He had to dress up, and 'look cool' in order to get kids to buy his music. And this is a fairly well known pop artist. Again, nothing was different about his music. Exact same voice. Exact same talent. Different hair cut, and leather jacket. People, often the very people who scream and yell about being judged on how they look, judged him differently based on how he looked. They didn't want to listen to a straight laced, GQ man. They wanted a hip rebel fighting establishment look, and if he didn't look like that no matter how well he sang, they wouldn't buy it. And lastly, I remember a lawyer, who went out with the biker gangs, in baker gear, with a chopper, and all the looks that go with it, and all the biker people would only use him for their legal troubles. And one even said, 'he's one of us'. What about skill? What about experience? What about judging on merit? Nope, it was he looks like us, he rides a bike like us, he's one of us. Nothing else mattered. Look the part, more important than anything else. So it's not all one way. It's not all, this doctor has tattoos, so I won't see him. There is judging the other way too. I'm not going to any other doctor, only this doctor because he's got tattoos like me, so I can trust him. And who is to say, that one form of judging is wrong, and the other form of judging is right?
Two of the most successful people I know are tattooed. One has run a successful business for many years, despite the tattoos covering both arms. One of his tattoos (Airborne wings) actually GOT work for him. The other is an AP-RN, and she is covered in tattoos from neck to ankles.
and I am going to disagree with you on this point, judging people is not human nature it is a learned nature. Young children do not judge other young children on how they look, they couldn't care less if they are black, white, or any other race, neither could they careless what the other child is wearing .. it only becomes an issue when parents step in and stop them playing together or they start to see stereotyping through books and media this builds a learned bias against others who fit the stereotype that their parents and/or media have projected. It is no coincidence that children brought up in what some would call liberal families are far more tolerant of other peoples differences than those raised in conservative families, if as you are asserting judgment was human nature it would make little to no difference how children were raised. By parents and/or media enforcing the stereotype only serves to perpetuate the cycle. I readily admit that I was raised with certain judgmental things against certain other people .. however I realized that it was wrong and as such have raised my children to look beneath the covering and find out what other people are like BEFORE deciding whether they wanted to know them, if everyone could do this - and I won't be holding my breath for it - then judging people purely on appearance, sex, colour, religion and anything else would be put where it should be .. in the waste bin.
Gross. But regardless, my idea was about "if equal in other regards,that would be the deciding factor against someone". for me, and for the reasons given.
Actually, you would never know about her tattoos if she didn't want you to. Most of the people she works with didn't know about them for years.
I highly doubt that. In every culture, in every society, throughout all of human history, no matter how 'liberal' the society was, there was judging based on looks, and based on race, and based on gender, and on and on and on. I can't think of a single instance in any society anywhere, where judging didn't exist. My own personal experience indicates otherwise as well. I grew up in an extremely conservative family. I was always taught to treat others as I would treat myself, and some of my childhood friends were foreign immigrants, though I was a pure white as a sheet. Equally some of the more liberal people around me, constantly judged me based on the fact I didn't have expensive clothes. So, if there is statistical evidence supporting your claim, I have not seen it. And what I have experience myself, shows the exact opposite.
