Jullian Assange has been arrested following removal of asylum by the Ecuadorian Government

Hmmm? My world view:

Despite an overabundance of altruistic mysticism, mankind is on its way to a future only the few can imagine, or create. It is these few who lift the rest of us from the reality of today into the world of tomorrow, from the horse and buggy to Virgin Galactic, from crippled children to crippling polio.

And who are these few? They are the visionaries, the independent souls, the intelligent minds, the beings of reason. This is the world I want, a rational one...and it doesn't begin with a gun nor a prayer, but with an idea, reason.

 

How does your excerpt show that Assange is a Russian intelligence agent? It doesn't show that Assange knew that Guccifer 2 and DC Leaks sites were GRU.

 

Bullshit! We need all the exposure of illegal activities done by government we can get!

 

Ha ha, Well if you want to believe the absurd idea that assange is a russian intelligence agent, you do not need actual evidence. And that is how it works.

 

True country, according to whom?

 

The time stamps on the Guccifer 2 documents that VIPS have, shows the guy was on the east coast, then central time and on the west coast. They think this person is a fabrication.

And I thought wilkileaks had the DNC emails by june and had to spend some time organizing them, and yet the mueller report says it was transmitted to assange in july. The dates of access to these leaks do not jive if that is correct.

 

Innocent? perhaps, but only in the sense of "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"...

Willingly self-deluded? Unknowingly, perhaps; self-delusion is never willing.

"either one of us or both of us are wrong about understanding each other's world view":

This is worth further examination:

Rand: "Man is a being of volitional consciousness".

On reflection, this 'conscious choice' available to Man is nothing more than a statement of the obvious - it's what separates us from animals driven solely by instinct.

But your assertion: "reason is subject to nothing but conscious choice" is a non-sequitur, because "volitional consciousness" (not to be confused with knowledge) is perfectly able to be exercised by the ignorant as well as anyone else.

Therefore reason must be subject to more than, or is greater than, mere 'conscious' choice by individuals.

 

The section on Russian interference is heavily redacted, I found 20 pages here completely blacked out. Mueller concludes Russia interfered with sophistication, intensively and in great depth, that this involved hacking compromising Hillary and DNC material, as well as deceptive use of social media, but we don’t get any details on this as it is the subject of “ongoing” investigation. We are left with assertions we cannot consider any evidence of.

Assange claims he got nothing from Russia, let alone the GRU, maybe he didn’t know? The identity of Gucifer is not known, but some who examined materials purported to be from this source have noted the often ridiculous Russian references as though inserted to induce that conclusion on their provenance.

 

Perhaps the extreme views of some of the posters on Political Forum have coloured my understanding of 'Libertarianism'.

As for Thomas Paine: he's my man, a product of the Enlightenment : ("the world is my home; to do good is my religion"..) BUT

<<One of the intellectual traditions which stands behind modern classical liberalism is that of natural law and natural rights. This tradition emerged in the 17th and 18th centuries and argues that the world is governed by natural laws which are discoverable by human reason. Human beings, because of their particular natures have a number of natural rights, or what Tom Paine described as “imprescriptible rights”. According to the founding fathers of the American constitution these rights are the right to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. A key aspect of this intellectual tradition is the notion that natural rights are not created by government but exist anterior to it and that governments are in fact created to “secure these rights.”>>

I think Tom and co. have it back to front; law arises out of human reason enabled by the cortex brain, NOT by law being discovered (via reason) within nature.

Obviously. The pre-human natural world in which we evolved has no such “imprescriptible rights”; it's law-less predation, survival, and competition for resources.

 

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Lincoln and Wilson prove that it doesn't really matter what the courts or even the constitution says. US law, such as it is, rests purely on force.

 

Well that's not really a serious reply.

 

You must be referring to your own reply then because mine was entirely serious.

 

This line of thought is best discussed here—http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mans-future-the-pedestal-or-the-cross.550884/

 

Where is Julian... ??

 

The same place he's been for the last 7 or 8 years--in London, in prison.

He is the quintessential enemy of the state. Several states actually.

 

I have only just met this guy. He is Vidal Gore, Al Gore's cousin. I really like him because he speaks as people spoke prior to 9/11. In this he is speaking about what happened after 9/11 and one or two things that Starjet did not know about are mentioned. - that is why we should have freedom of information and 'democracy' He points out that in the US Freedom of Information ended with 9/11. Not a democracy but meaning much the same he also says that you lost your Republic when Bush junior was elected. You became run by Corporations. I believe he also says that free speech died then in the US

Enjoy



Oh and how could I forget it,he also mentions that that was when you started to be run by Fundamental Christians as was Tony Blair.

 

Errr...I'm guessing this is a joke?

 

No, what makes you say that?

 

Gore Vidal isn't really Al Gore's cousin. They are like seventh cousins once removed. We are probably more closely related.

 

I really have little interest in that. However I will say that the only reason I mentioned that was because in this interview and in a lecture with questions that he did it was the interviewer not him who said he was a cousin. So quit the worrying about his genetics and listen to what he says. I am having trouble hearing the end so I am not sure whether he is in favour of the electoral college and as such being a Republic or in favour of democracy. He is however against Tyranny. It is an excellent interview. The entire West has changed psychologically since 9/11 and he seems to notice what is going on. I am not by the way saying he has provided the answers but I do find his findings interesting and back then he talks about things which we have seen developing. Many people call Tony Blair a Christian Zionist and it was Tony Blair on Bush's demands who got the EU to remove Alistair Crooke from Palestine where he had been working with Hamas and felt confident they were pretty near ready for talks to conclude the two state solution. Blair demanded of Germany that the EU take him out, declare Hamas a terrorist group and allow Israel to do anything they wanted to have their own way with no protest from Europe. Clearly that was and is a Christian Zionist aim.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n05/alastair-crooke/permanent-temporariness

Gore wrongly thinks in one of the things I watched that the EU will not go along with it. Israel has also been rewritten since 9/11

I have to go to sleep now as it is after midnight

 

I have had a look: not a useful debate happening there, with the lone participant (other than yourself) namely, 'Spooky', claiming Objectivism has been thoroughly debunked (probably correct) - but he/she is coming from the literalist Christian position, a view also not based in reality.

Meanwhile I have debunked your own Randian-derived version of Objectivism above:

<<But your assertion: "reason is subject to nothing but conscious choice" is a non-sequitur, because (Rand's) "volitional consciousness" (not to be confused with knowledge) is perfectly able to be exercised by the ignorant as well as anyone else.
Therefore reason must be subject to more than, or is greater than, mere 'conscious' choice by individuals.>>

- which you will be unable to refute.

Hence the world view of neither of you is based in reality.

Spooky is content to believe 'God' is on his side, and all is well so long as you have faith, forgetting that Muslims also believe in 'God' - and consequently the two faiths have been at war since the crusaders decided to take back Jerusalem from Islam. And 9/11 - part of that ongoing conflict - undoubtably destroyed another facet of freedom in the US, as Alexa has pointed to above (and more recently 50 innocent souls in Christchurch, and - in retaliation - 350 in Colombo)

OTOH, your belief that infallible reason resides within/is available to the individual, (ie, not within universal law created by the community, whether national or international) and that other 'Supermen' with access to this infallible reason (a Nietzschean concept?) will voluntarily co-operate to create a world of liberty, prosperity and peace - that view is also a fantasy, as shown above.

Hence your insistence that absolute national sovereignty is a sine qua non, - a view soon to be shown as false in practice, as the urgent requirement to go green - globally - pushes up against capitalism without international oversight (regardless of the ongoing catastrophe of war, necessitating government secrecy, espionage, lies, corruption and an eternal arms race: - "Humanity on a cross of iron": Eisenhower).

Conclusion: the combined operation of both false world views described above is the reason Assange is in jail.

 

In the meantime, I had learned that the case had been closed in Sweden and that in fact it was only about US extradition requests, because it allegedly helped Chelsea Manning crack a password .... which is ridiculous in itself and therefore is only a reason for pure and legally baseless revenge of the United States.

Anyway ... how stupid and ridiculous a law is in a country, and how idiotic then an accusation of injury may be, law is law and then you have to stick to it.
In some US states, there is a public ban on alcohol, so I'm not allowed to drink beer at a picnic on the lawn. Is for me Europeans also completely ridiculous the law ... as well as the fact that one is 18 years of age, but only from age 21 may buy alcohol ... but since it is so, one must also stick to it.

 

Gore Vidal is the man's name. And you're right that he was most intelligent, insightful and persuasive in his writing and speaking.

He is no relation at all to Al Gore.

 

and that was indeed what was written. I suspect I was taken in by some American in joke!