Kirk Cameron proved the existence of God in debate with Atheists.

I gather you were born in Nicaragua , Jed .
What led to you California ?

 

Very interesting debate. Most interesting is how defensive and hostile the atheists seem in comparison to the calm and relaxed Christians. Particularly when the atheists are asked to expound upon their arguments.

 

Are you reading the same thread as me? With Jedimiller in it?

 

Doesn't seem so. But people can read things from their own perspectives. The tank guy has seemed pretty volatile himself.

 

Which 'god'?

 

Huh, what I think? I almost missed this response. Very well, I'll give it a look, but I'm a bit tired, so it might be a bit sappy.

Ok, first vid, just introducing people, just a minute of my life I'll never get back.

Second vid, Ray Comfort providing the same argument from design four times, as if different trappings of the same argument would make it more valid or something. He completely avoids the dispute around the argument. I suppose there are answers to these, if you think they "won", I suspect the others had something to say too, but I can't be asked to find them on google. Anyway, he asserts that the universe shows sign of creation and then goes on to argue from that premise. He does not supply a picture of what an uncreated universe would look like, and therefore, he shows how well the world matches with his universe but does not compare it to how well it matches the uncreated universe. Thus, his argument is not related to the comparison between the two world views. For instance, he quotes Newton saying, without peer review, that there must be a creator for the planets to line up, but completely ignores the countless peer reviewed and verified process by which the solar system can align itself without divine input. On top of that, I think his idea of how perfect the universe is is a bit far fetched, he's showing the complexity of everything that could have gone through a evolutionary process, but he ignores the fact that according to his view, things that could not have gone through evolutionary processes could just as easily be complex, but are not. Design is a weird word, depending on the definition, I could possibly say that life has been designed, by evolutionary or similar processes, after all, we use a sort of evolutionary process in our production of cars too, we come up with something, test it, and if it doesn't work, we reduce its probability to show up in our next model (we scrap it).

In the third vid, he goes on about a lot of unrelated things and then there is the part about the conscience. He postulates certain aspects of the conscience, and just states things at random. Maybe it's good for "winning" a debate, but it's hardly valid. Again, as for winning, he uses that technique where he forces people to agree with him by supplying facts which are indeed true, and then glosses over the link to the conclusion. Then there is like four minutes of preaching with very little debate and very much feelgood blabbing which has nothing to do with the questions at hand.

Fourth vid, Kirk asserts some random stuff, spends a lot of time talking about the Bible, which the guy in the first vid said that Kirk had agreed not to do. Then there is some threat of hell and topped off with a Pascal's wager.

In the end, yeah, they probably won. They sidetracked completely from the questions at hand and did their usual preaching, using those tricks of moving the discussion from the actual issues to the parts of the questions that everyone already agrees with (everybody knows that cars, paintings or cameras are man made, and he spends ages telling us that and then glosses over the argument of how you tell created things from non-created things). There was a lot of happy stories that make people want to agree with you and so on.

I had a quick look at one of the other side's answers, and they do do much worse. Kirk and Ray put on a show, regurgitating the performance they have rehearsed to perfection, using stage tricks such as forcing status and constantly challenging how far they can push the debate into soft-voiced promises of eternal bliss and salvation from a hell which they never bothered to introduce with that science they supposedly had promised to use. The opponents were nervous, their voices cracked, they couldn't call bluffs, they were cold and hard to relate to. They had a lot of people cheering them on, but that didn't really help that much. So yeah, technically, it depends on what you mean by winning a debate, but by most definitions, Kirk and Ray did indeed win.

There are decent discussions one can have about the existence of a god. There are not them.

 

Watermelon.

Disproved - try again.

 

Pineapples were also brought up and of course Jedi ignored the point.

Intellectual honesty does not seem to be his strong suit.

 

God made berries didnt he.

Small, soft, easy to reach, can fit more then one in your mouth, some can kill you.

 

I've heard some pretty stupid arguments for why some invisible sky God exists, but this one takes the cake. Lots of fruit does not fit your mouth. But even if it did the argument is still patently stupid.

 

I guess you have never had a Durian before? It's as big as a hedgehog, covered with spikes, and smells like putrified garbage, but actually tastes pretty good and is quite healthy. Or how about the Jackfruit, it's as big as a human torso and weighs just about as much. Need I go on...

Surely making an argument for/against a creator has to go beyond a mathematical formula akin to: God = Hand size + Fruit size.

 

You are conversing with people who are seriously disadvantaged and challenged
Pretending they are intelligent and trying to be amenable to them is stretching tolerance beyond reasonable limits . But , of course , it is your choice .

 

I had durian in Thailand. You really can't even hold the thing very well with all the spikes on it. That might be the most user unfriendly fruit I've ever seen! It's big, hard a rock, covered in sharp spikes and smells like ripe sweat socks.

We stayed at a lodge that had durian trees (if that is what the tree is called). They had to set up nets to catch the falling fruit because, as you well know, a falling durian could cause some serious damage to a person. If you were some God making fruit convenient for people the durian is clearly an epic fail.

 

LOL...If I didn't know better you'd think the people of Thailand wouldn't be the biggest fans of God(s) knowing full well that a great source of vitamins and nutrients is contained within a putried spike laden object that can crush a human skull. If I were them I would feel like God is the omnipotent version of Nelson from the Simpsons.

 

Are you still thinking of an answer , Jed ?
I trust it did not involve anything you would prefer us not to know .

 

Buddhists have a sense of humor. And they readily acknowledge evolution, so I think they blame Darwin more than some evil fruit god. Once you get durian into your mouth it is really quite good. Many of the hotels banned durian in the rooms. Apparently, having a hotel that smells like rotting corpses is bad for business. Who knew?

 

lol. Kirk Cameron is the funniest of all the creationists.

 

The only thing Kirk Cameron has proven is that he is a raging lunatic, right along with his friend Ray Comfort, the banana christian.

 

Then who or what 'created' the durian and for whom? Definitely not hand sized.

Oh wait, "Tastes like heaven, smells like hell".

 

They are actually,, I eat them every day. Those little three inch long bananas found all over SE Asia are natural bananas (not crossed) which are also found in native forests.

Everyone in the west are used to the Cavendish type banana, but here in SE Asia those little three inchers just rule. They leave Cavendish bananas for dead.

 

Durian stinks to high heaven but is actually quite nice. Durian has been banned in our house. Ever tried durian ice-cream? Bloody great.

Jack fruit is similar but not as strong. I love jack fruit but eat too much, it doesn't like me.

 

That's the whole argument. The varieties of fruits and vegetables found in Asia and South America, even Africa leaves the "native" European varieties for dead. Kinda funny how one European staple, the potato, isn't even European.

It then appears God didn't really like Christians, creating boring veges like turnips, cabbages, onions, carrots etc . The tropics is where it's at for the sheer variety of fruit and veges.

 

I had a durian shake, but never ice cream. I'm surprised they make into ice cream given the Thai's major hatred of dairy.

 

yet you believe a "God" can just pop into existence, but were just too complicated to evolve over time?

which is more complicated... a "human" or a "God"


.

 

On the other hand I do believe that we Christians should give evolutionists some brownie points for sticking up with the idea that life evolves!

I believe that God the Father is a being composed of fundamental energy who has planned, engineered and choreographed an infinite number of Big Bang events over infinite time in the past. "My Father works hitherto...and I work!" (Jesus)

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a05