Left-Wing Violence Rocks Seattle... Police Attacked... Businesses Destroyed

A large group of elite wealthy interests became elite wealthy interests under this system. If you want to change it, or... even really understand it... become an elite wealthy interest.

You evidently believe that you are the arbiter of objectivity and by proxy fact. I assure you that you are not. Anything is possible. A skinny black kid from nothing can be president. A skinny white kid can start a computer company in his basement that ends up owning the market. You just want their stuff.

 

Hmmm ... no offense intended, but I don't think you still completely understand why the left (Democrats) want to ban guns. They want to ban your guns ... not theirs.

 

Ermegaaawd... my widgets are immoral? You are just adorable. Who's scraps am I eating btw? I don't have a boss... or master. I make my own things up... people buy them... people like them and they sell more... and I make money...

Who's (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) do you think I am precisely? I have made my life, it was not handed down to me. My life is awesome. I get to be around my children... raise them. I have no unmet needs. I have an 11 acre pond behind my house full of mutant crappie and large mouth bass. If I want things, I have the money to buy them. My children are getting decent educations... my soon to be six year old girl has been using linux since she was three. My kids are gonna be monsters. You aren't doing anything for free. You are part of both immoral systems, and pretend your lack of success is a conscious choice to "fight the man". Its pathetic.

 

I agree and most people at OWS saw Obama as some one shoveling money to wall street. I had a number of debates with people who complained about wall street, while imagining government as a heroic benefactor. The relationship between government and commerce/business that exists in our capitalist system is the problem. Removing government from that equation is as silly as the tea party removing business from that equation.

 

Is Seattle open again after the carnage, or is it still held hostage by the violent lefties?

We'll pray for you, Seattle.

 

Hey. We agree. I submit that the majority of the OWS folks had no idea what they were against, much less how to remedy it. It was a massive false-flag protest that fell on its face.

 

Stop!! Do you know what the word anything means? Think about that, and then we can stop that first silly argument. And even a less silly argument, that people have a lot of opportunity in America is inaccurate. We compare unfavorably with most other advanced nations in terms of economic mobility. So people born into poverty tend to stay in poverty, because there are structural limitations in place. A belief in unlimited agency without consideration of structure is quite naive.

Next up stop with the silly straw men about wanting their stuff. I am not even remotely materialistic. I could be making lots of money right now, and have lots of stuff. I knowingly and consciously chose not to. Material accumulation is not my goal in life, and I have NO interest in having the stuff off the rich. If I did have it, I would give most of it away.

 

Widgets are not immoral. The means by which widgets are distributed is. I don't think you are immoral, and never said I did. It is the system that is immoral, not you. Most people participating in the system are doing so, because no other alternative exists. Not because they think what they are doing is great.

Next up, I don't have a lack of success. I am a highly accomplished individual with a life that I love. I rejected a life I wouldn't love, because I do not believe material success is the only way of determining success. If I did, I could take a job tomorrow making 6 figures (since my graduate program just ended, the job at Goldman Sachs is not off the table yet, I just won't take it). I am not going to argue that I am not part of the systems. Systems are too powerful and large for one individual to fight alone, but I reject the system as much as is practical, and do so in what is unquestionably a conscious choice.

 

Do you realize that in context "anything" is implicit of anything within a system? Clearly a rational person would not suggest you can grow up to be a bird. You can, however fill any position you want if you work for it. You can create any position which fills a need.

We agree that noone can be above the law... so long as the law is equally applied... we can do anything.

We could fire everyone. Fire every single representative in congress and start fresh with no seniority. The body is corrupt. It would be a lot of work to try and corrupt the whole thing again, overnight... and we can fire any who suck whatever elitist tit we decide we don't like.

We DO have power. But you go ahead and scratch at the ivory tower with your stick.

I'm goin fishin.

- - - Updated - - -

You aren't suggesting you had the freedom to choose the life you wanted are you?

cause... you said... you can't do that.

 

That wasn't a reference to becoming a bird. Though to be fair the word anything would imply as much!! It was a reference to the fact, that there are structural limitations in place which seriously limit most peoples ability to achieve. A person born in the slums of the south side of Chicago CAN escape if they are extraordinary in some way, but if not it is incredibly difficult. One of my best friends is a black girl born into extreme poverty in the Bronx, and is now a graduate student with me in one of the best schools in the world. She got there because she is incredibly intelligent. Her sisters on the other hand, who do not share her intelligence, are stuck in the Bronx in poverty. Similarly, if you are born in Appalachia or the Ozarks, the possibilities open to you are severely limited!! My friend was lucky, because she was the youngest sibling and by far the smartest. However what if she had been the oldest? What if her mother had been a heroin addict who died when she was 15? In that situation, what are the options available to her? Abandon her family to pursue her dreams, or stay behind to struggle to care for her family? That is a situation MANY people are faced with in this country.

How about less extraordinary examples. I am lucky, because my parents (who are extraordinary people, who I am blessed to have) paid for my undergrad studies, along with my grandparents. Then I got grants for my graduate program for learning Arabic. So I am leaving school with a very small amount of student debt. Alternatively, many people are NOT so lucky. So they are forced by the system into a life they don't want, because in order to fund the education they imagined they needed to open up possibilities to themselves, they actually unknowingly limited the possibilities available to them significantly. Thankfully my father is a wise and great man, who saw this danger when I was too young and naive to see it, and helped me avoid it. Most aren't so lucky.

Last of all. Of course I haven't chosen the life I want. The life I want is to travel around the world with my girlfriend, never working a day in my life. Maybe writing from time to time. However within the conditions of possibilities created by the structures I am functioning within, I have chosen the path I believe to be least objectionable. Thankfully I have great parents who allowed that to be possible, because if I was 100k in debt right now, I wouldn't have a choice but to take the job at Goldman Sachs.

 

False-flag? No!!! There were many misguided people, but it was not a false-flag. You have done the same thing I just said I disagreed with. You need to stop thinking about capitalism and government as competing entities. Stop seeing government as an entity which will protect its own power by throwing business under the bus. Government will use populist anti-business rhetoric when it is useful, just like business will use anti-government rhetoric when useful, but the reality is the relationship is interdependent. The power of each side is reinforced by the other. So neither is going to actively seek to undermine the other in any way which undermines their own power.

PS. By business I mean elite business interests. Not all business of course. Government obviously doesn't care in any meaningful way about most businesses.

 

Meh. This will descend into a human condition argument. Poverty and strife produces more of the same, or it produces exceptionalism. I will bet on your friend over a priveleged peer any day to excell under relative stress. Howard Hughs is about as close as you are going to get to Tony Stark. Exceptional minds born with ridiculous wealth are few and far between. Most exceptional people, in my experience, had to struggle.

You could have the life you want without being a corporate shill. "The system" is not the problem... people are... and they will exist in any system. Stuff needs to be fixed... but nobody cares if you are angry because you believe that the world works like game of thrones... only the rulers are united, fighting the people.

 

The younger American generation is oppressed, they are facing the highest unemployment and underemployment numbers of previous generations.

To label them as 'entitled' or 'worthless' because they demand better pay and work conditions, is unbecoming.

 

The pursuit of 'exceptionalism' is no excuse to oppress and/or deprive others of their entitlements.

When the system rewards the people who get ahead over the ones who choose not to work as hard, it's a robbery of their right to be supported by others of society.

A collective society is a proper system, where the hard workers take care of the ones who choose not to or can't work as hard. That's what a civilization is based on.

 

Clearly you have not hired one since Obama has been president...

 

If I was in business to make money no I wouldn't, but that is besides the point.

 

Ummmmm, no.

 

At TEA party rallies there is never been any lawlessness. But when left wing loons get together like in Seattle there is always violence!!!

Explain that libs!!!!

 

Maybe they were a bit bored?

Only been to Seattle once, was there for a week and it never rained once (it was Autumn/Fall) and the bloke at the hotel told me it was amazing it wasn't bucketing down

 

Err...lots of pizza delivery and overuse of the word "DUUUUUUUUDE!"

 

This is all so (*)(*)(*)(*)ing stupid.

Some left wingers do horrible things, some right wingers do horrible things. Both sides try to paint this onto the ideology of the rest, supposing that there's something inherent in their politics that makes them do these things, and if you hold these views you're just as bad as them and support murder!

FFS, can you get over yourselves? PEOPLE do evil (*)(*)(*)(*) sometimes. Sometimes a bunch of disturbed individuals blow up a building, sometimes a bunch of disturbed individuals throw rocks at police.

To suppose that this relates in anyway to the opinion of others is logically flawed. If a right winger blows up a building or tries to fly his biplane into the IRS the left tries to associate this action with the opinions of others who hold similar ideologies. But its the bits that differ that are ALWAYS the reasons for such actions. This is nothing more than guilt by association between the worldviews of the bomber and the rest of society. They then proceed to attack the now straw-maned worldview of the right in general. Vice versa when a leftist blows something up or assaults police, etc.

You might say that this is the logical conclusion of their ideology and they should accept the perp's actions into their politics, but there's a huge difference between should and has. Several fallacies difference.


Apologies to conservatives for posting this on a thread where left wingers have blown something up, it wasn't intended to single you out. If I'd posted this on a thread about George Tiller you'd be fine with it. The principle is the same.

Why can't we all denounce these actions for what they are and realize that left and right are just approximate terms. It's what you actually believe that counts. Attack that instead and stop acting like a bunch of children.

 

Nice to see black bloc tactics being use in Seattle, hopefully they take it up a notch soon

 

This isn't about the individual fringe kook here and there. This is about group thought and group action. The simple and undeniable fact is that if you put a bunch of folks together at a liberal-minded rally, and a bunch at a conservative-minded rally, you will get far more hooliganism at the lib rally. At a minimum, they will not police their own trash, and always leave the place a mess.

And too often, they resort to vandalism and mayhem.

Its the basic difference between having a mentality that blames others for your lot in life, vs. taking responsibility for oneself.

 

Seems we live in a angry world right now. Last week we had a riot in Virginia Beach when 40,000 blacks came to the strip for the weekend. We had three shootings, three stabbings and numerous fist fights and destruction and looting of beach property. Half of the arrests were of locals and half from out of town colledge kids. Was it black on white or white on black crime? No ones saying. In fact it's been pretty hush hush. Those of us who live here know that you don't go to the beach after dark unless your a brave soul or a fool. Unfortunely, I feel sorry for all those who book a hotel room at ridiculous high rates and find themselves pretty confined to their hotel rooms at night.

 

wa, wa, wa. Crying like a baby. Eveybody is holding you down. Those evil capitalists are preventing you from ??? Ill note that you didn't actually debate any thing that I said, you just went back into the tired mantra of hate.

Socialists/Communists are pathetic.

Right, that makes perfect sense. Because in this country, we elect people based on how much money their voters have rather than how many people vote for them. The uber rich get 100 votes to your one. /sarcasm

Tax and spend democrats have been getting elected in droves, and the people they are supposed to be looking out for stay impoverished. And then, those same morons buy into the line that its the rich's fault. Unreal.

But you liberals just keep lapping up that kool-aid, buying into class warfare, while all your politicians and saviors are flying around in private jets, cruising to speaking events in limousines as their net worth skyrockets.

Yup, you buy right into the boogeyman victimization crap. I bet you also vote left/liberal/democrat too. How's that been working out for you?

Lets start citing examples, rather than platitudes. And see if you actually can have a conversation and defend your positions.

Give me an example of market manipulation.

I started out middle class at best, and am watching my net worth tick up and up and up. System is working for me just fine. Probably because I didn't (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan and cry foul my entire life blaming everybody else for my challenges, and instead pulled myself up, joined the military, went to college, earned a degree, and entered a profession that pays exceptionally well. My wife the same, and then when I had the opportunity, I quit my job, took the risk, and started my own practice. Now I am one of those "evil" "greedy" business owners.