Or so the claim goes.... His bolding is of the larger size, of his own accord. I placed this in science since this wasn't a health care topic not one of rights per se. Mods please move if there is a more appropriate sub forum. Back to the topic at hand. I have tried to find evidence backing this up, and strangely enough I can find nothing. Maybe those with Google Fu better than mine can support this claim. Note that the poster has specifically made a separation between straight women, lesbians and trans women (MtF). So this is not a case of mistaking trans women as lesbians. Do feel free to quote larger passages of the linked posts, if you feel I have quoted anything out of context. Don't just claim it is out of context.
Not higher levels, but higher levels of exposure in the womb... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000330094644.htm
But that was not the claim. The claim was that lesbians had higher levels of testosterone than straight women, thus giving lesbians an advantage in sports. The study, of which I would want to see more of a breakdown on their demographic spread, doesn't mention whether lesbians had higher testosterone, only that they were exposed to more in the womb.
This research suggests that finger length not only measures levels of exposure in the womb, but also athletic prowess. So if lesbians have longer finger length, they probably tend to have an advantage in competition. And I know it isn't exactly the same as the claim. But it does suggest that lesbians tend to have a physical advantage over heterosexual women.
That smacks of correlation/causation fallacy. What would be the advantage? I really doubt longer finger length itself is the advantage, merely the sign of what the advantage is or of exposure to what gives the advantage. But the study only shows a potential to affect orientation, not anything that would be advantageous in sports. What is the advantage? Can you cite something from the article that indicate more athletic prowess in lesbians?
Makes sense that the male hormone at above normal levels would maculinize a biological female that generally would make the female more athletic. And perhaps stronger even adding to muscle and bone density . Most people have seen manly women. Probably higher than normal T levels. But they are still female and just got lucky in the genetic hand nature dealt them. Not the same as biological males cheating and competing against real females.. What happened to the principle of fairness? This isnt ideoiogical hell, it's mental.
The problem with this is that lesbians are not all, or even mostly, "maculinize(d)", as you put it. Quite a large number of the are quite feminine. I would have to see something that shows an higher chance for more muscle and bone density in the same ones that had the longer fingers. There are also straight manly looking women as well. So that doesn't help us in determining that lesbians as a group have higher testosterone levels over straight women, such that leads to an advantage in sports, as per the cited quotes.
here is a study that attempts to answer the question in an international study https://kops.uni-konstanz.de/bitstr...r_2-1f6t7wu8qvgcl6.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
I have an alternate theory to put forward. Lesbians are slightly more likely to come from ethnicities with higher testosterone/androgen levels. Unfortunately since the US is nearly completely mixed in terms of ethnicities from Europe, it would be nearly impossible to adjust for ethnicity to test this theory. Correlations are not always direct, and may be correlated to some third intermediary factor.
Correlation still needs to be shown and proven, and Thingamabob never once did so. Jonsa, above, at least has brought forth one study that seems to show such a correlation, although it run counter to another study that shows the opposite that Skruddgermire posted in the other thread. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3666687 I will have to go over Jonsa's at a later timr
The reporting is ignorant. ALL women have testosterone. Testosterone & Estrogen in Women: High vs. Low vs. Normal ... https://www.webmd.com/women/guide/normal-testosterone-and-estrogen-levels-in-women But women also have testosterone. The ovaries produce both testosterone and estrogen. Relatively small quantities of testosterone are released into your bloodstream by the ovaries and adrenal glands. Low Testosterone in Women: Causes and Treatments https://www.healthline.com/health/low-testosterone-in-women Jun 27, 2017 · Other possible causes of low testosterone in women include: adrenal insufficiency, where the adrenal glands don’t work as well as they should. history of oophorectomy, or the surgical removal of the ovaries. hypopituitarism. taking oral estrogen therapy, …
I have plenty of anecdotal observation. There seems to be a larger ratio of lesbians in Northern Europe relative to gays. Well, is that really surprising, with those big body frame women who go around not looking very different from the men? I have an Asian acquaintance (born in China) who tells me that he thinks German women kind of look like men, at least to him, relative to the women of his culture. I was kind of taken aback by this, but then after thinking about it it started making some sense.
I've done a skim through and have notes the following so far. Also: Given the other study I linked, this is not showing me where lesbian cis women have consistently higher testosterone levels such that they have an advantage in sports over straight cis women. I will have to delve deeper when I can.
I don't think there was ever a claim that women don't have testosterone, only that lesbian cis women have significantly more than straight cis women, and thus have an advantage in sports.
Just to ensure we are on the same page, you are saying there seems to be a larger ration of homosexual women compared to homosexual men in Europe? I ask, because while lesbian only refers to women, gay is frequently interchangeable between men and women. And relative to our culture many Asian men are very feminine looking, particularly in Japan where Lady Boi's seem to be a thing. But then we have to question whether testosterone levels are regionally affected (a la genetic heritage)? And we still have to show that if lesbian cis women, as a majority, have more testosterone, that it is significantly enough to provide an advantage over straight cis women in sports.
