Let's ask a fundamental question...

Looks like the right is having problems answering the question on the other thread, about why Mitch McConnell refuses to subpoena documents and witnesses that would prove beyond a doubt that Pelosi and House Democrats don't have a case (or that they do, I guess)

So here is a more fundamental question. Let's see if we have better luck

If it were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Trump is guilty of a crime, should he be removed?

Let's say a recording is made public of a call in which he demands from Zelinski that he make a public statement saying that he's investigating Biden. And then let's him know that he's only interested in the statement, not in the investigation. Something like that.

Would you unequivocally state that he should be removed?

It's possible we're wasting our time trying to show the evidence that Trump is guilty to some who couldn't care less if he acted illegally or not. This should clarify that...

I believe that if the documents, and the witnesses that Democrats are requesting did not definitively and clearly prove him guilty, we should all apologize to him.

How about the other side?

 

Then we will say you have the Quid but not the Quo. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt would be compatible to you being arrested for theft because you opened a package which was left on your front door that you were unaware of was addressed to your neighbor. Intent to commit a crime must be proven.

 

Depends on the crime. Simple guilt of any crime has never been considered justification for removal from office.

 

I'm talking about impeachment. Removing the President. Not imprisoning him.

You can't answer the question?

 

I already said it: Abuse of power to cheat in the elections. Perpetuating himself in power by illegal means.

That should be enough to elicit a yes or no answer.

 

If that was proven beyond a reasonable doubt yes I would support President Trumps removal.

You do know that neither of the passed articles of impeachment actually accuse him of that?

 

That's exactly what Article 1 accuses him of. Article 2 accuses him of obstructing the investigation into the accusations in Article 1

 

No it doesn't. The articles of impeachment say absolutely nothing about Abuse of power to cheat in the elections. Perpetuating himself in power by illegal means.

 

Oh.... you were doing a search for the literal words.

That's hilarious!

Obviously I'm not quoting the article verbatim. I'm just explaining it. Legalese is obviously different from colloquial language.

 

Your what ifs should be about Trump winning 2020. Are you going to accept the result?

 

Impeachable crimes of office include "treason, bribery, and high crimes & misdemeanors". The House accusations against Trump would be categorized under the latter...high crimes & misdemeanors. I would also include "bribery" & "treason", which (to me) are clear...but the House decided to focus on violations of office that are incontrovertible. Bribery & treason, on the other hand, would've led to endless debate (particularly in the Senate trial)...making the accusations against Trump appear dubious or contrived.

 

Nothing alleged is worthy of impeachment.

43 of the prior 44 presidents did worse things. Only Washington was without sin.

This is just petty politics on steroids.

 

weren’t you the one flooding these forums telling us Mueller report was the end of trump and posting hundreds of posts citing evidence and promising mueller would bring trump down?

where is your Russia or Mueller now? Oh.. it’s ukraine now.

 

Then how come all the Trumpers didn't come to Bill Clinton's defense regarding his impeachment when that was discussed? Obviously Bill's sexually motivated violations weren't nearly as bad as Trump's dozens of serious violations of the oath of office.

I'm quite certain that if Trump was a Democrat, the Trumpers would be all over him like a fly on a turd.

 

Clinton lied under oath and was disbarred. IMHO, not worthy of impeachment. But the Dems drew first blood with that ass Ted Kennedy "borking" Judge Bork. It's been all downhill since then.

 

McConnell's camp is also maneuvering to keep their political careers they also don't know what the DEMS have in store for them and Pelosi delayed the submission of the articles of impeachment edging it closer with the upcoming Presidential elections. Bolton's move to testify is being blocked by Trump just recently.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...executive-privilege-to-block-bolton-testimony

 

The question was answered many times. With the low down, dirty, corrupt, congressional impeachment hearings (you know the one where they magically changed it to abuse of power because they couldn't prove their original accusations), Mitch really has no choice. It looks like he has stooped to the democrats level. You guys made your bed, time to sleep in it!

 

Unless something major happens Trump will not be impeached by the senate. Unless something major happens Trump will be re-elected president. Even a deaf, dumb, blind man know that.

 

No one is having trouble answering, you are having trouble understanding.

 

Not necessarily. I live in a very conservative state. The majority of the population here didn’t care less about Bill’s good times in the White House. We thought the impeachment was a joke. But it was also a different time back then. We were a much less politically and racially divided country. Now we live in a world of snowflakes, millennials, safe places, racism, and self entitlement. Thanks Obama.

 

Seems you forget the "blue dress" and Clinton blatantly lying about it. All Trump has done is speak and act in his own defense.

 

For some reason you think the Senate should do what the House does.

 

The House didn’t have evidence of any high crime or misdemeanor so only included one opinion and a stupid article claiming the WH doesn’t have the right to protect privilege.

 

I personally think the whole thing has been a waste of time, energy and money. Everyone knew since the day after the election in 2016 that if the Democrats regained the House, they would impeach Trump. Everyone knew since the day after that presidential election that if the Democratic House impeached Trump, the Republican controlled senate would acquit. Everyone knows the Democrats in the senate is convince Trump is guilty before any evidence is provided. Everyone knows that the Republicans think he is innocent prior to any evidence provided. That the Democrats truly believe Trump has created numerous crimes that warrants impeachment and removal. That Republicans believe Trump is totally innocent and this whole thing is nothing more than a very partisan political vendetta, revenge against Trump for winning an election.

That probably more than 95 senators from both parties has their minds made up whether to vote guilty or not guilty regardless of the evidence, whether that evidence warrants removal or doesn't warrant removal. Each senator from both parties are entering trial totally biased with Trump pre-judged.

I find it very humorous that the Democrats are complaining, ranting and howling about the Republicans not being impartial and biased when they themselves aren't impartial and very biased. So the game continues. My hope is all of these very partisan political shenanigans taints both major parties so bad that a viable third party will arise. A pipe dream for sure. Neither party is about to give up their monopoly on our political system.

 

Here is a quote from Article I.................................

"Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage."

Which leads me to assume you came to hold your completely inaccurate belief about what the articles say because you consume disinformation from right wing media sources. Something many of us have been saying for a very long time.