Actually, the article says that Saudis are the main source of funds for the Mali jihadists; it doesn't say the Saudi Arabian government is the main source of funds for the Mali jihadists. As for the attempts to blame all this on the USA, why on earth would America ever want to encourage Al-Qaeda anywhere?
Well, the military-industrial complex thrives upon conflict. As long as it doesn't get found out it will pursue its profits anywhere. The shock doctrine is its creation.
'France is totally bankrupt': French jobs minister Michel Sapin embarrasses Francois Hollande with shocking statement on state of the country's economy' “There is a state but it is a totally bankrupt state,” Mr Sapin said. “That is why we had to put a deficit reduction plan in place, and nothing should make us turn away from that objective.” Mr Sapin’s “totally bankrupt” statement is likely to cause huge embarrassment for President Francois Hollande, who will be left to undo the potential damage to his socialist government’s reputation. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...on-state-of-the-countrys-economy-8471077.html and all that uranium and gold and diamonds and other precious elements in Mali.................... no wonder they are arming the Wahabis to run riot then the US moves it's base in then the looting starts!
I can see your envy at Mali diverting the "looters" from your bankrupt country! Maybe the Malians will end up so "looted" they'll be able to afford cheap Egyptian workers to come and do all the hard work for them like the "lootridden" Saudis?
First of all I have to say that I appreciate your point by point replies, but I will once again have to disagree with some of your conclusions. Libya doesn't really have a strong Al Qaeda presence, nor did it during the uprising against Gaddafi. TV media keeps pointing to groups such as Ansar Al-Sharia in Libya as "Al Qaeda" or as "Al Qaeda linked" or even as "Al Qaeda like", but they aren't Al Qaeda. AQIM technically isn't Al Qaeda proper either, they are an affiliate. Affiliates are generally regionally based and focused groups like Al Shabaab in Somalia, and the GSPC in southern Algeria / northern Mali. But they can and do carry out missions styled after Al Qaeda's ideology and Al Qaeda reserves the right to claim responsibility for any of their attacks. Sometimes these groups will use their funds to contract various tasks out to other groups. We see this all of the time in Pakistan for example. The Haqqini Network their or the Pakistani Taliban; while both are functionally based in the tribal areas, both will pay armed gangs or thugs in other provinces to engage in kidnappings or targeted killings. These thugs themselves are not part of the overall organization, merely mercenaries; and this is sort of what Ansar Al Sharia in Libya did with the Benghazi attack. They aren't Al Qaeda; nor are they even a single coherent group. Rather it is a generalized name that we have come to use for a loose collection of tribal militias who also happen to have Islamist ideological systems. We constantly run into the fallacy of calling all Islamist fighters "Al Qaeda" but they simply aren't. Al Qaeda approved of the toppling of Gaddafi, but they weren't the ones who did it. We did not fund Al Qaeda in Libya. I'd also point out that neither the CIA nor the State Department can give Al Qaeda funds, or weapons anyway. They are designated by our government as a terrorist organization so they cannot receive US assistance. I agree, but I see that as an unintended side effect, rather than something engaged in by design. We have spent a lot of money helping to fight AQIM in Mali, it doesn't make any sense that we would then spend money to bolster them, especially when they continuously attack our interests. I must strongly disagree here as well. The Us has no interests in a destabilized Northern Africa. I have no idea why it has become so popular to think that, but it simply isn't true. We have spent billions of dollars giving military and economic aid for example to Egypt specifically to prevent destabilization there. Chaos in Egypt is a HUGE threat to the US and they don't want it at all. It threatens key shipping lanes (the Suez Canal), it would create a new base for international terrorists who target the US and western governments, and would threaten the security of Israel which the US government actually does care about. We literally gain nothing and lose A LOT from a destabilized Egypt, and similar things could be said for Libya. Europe didn't want a civil war there, Libya is traditionally the staging point for illegal immigration into Europe from North Africa and instability there means unwanted leaks of people (some perhaps hostile) into Europe. It is a major security threat. Once again, I see no clear incentive to encourage chaos there, and the same is true for Mali. The coup in Mali brought on by the rebellion has undermined US economic interests there, not supported them. The US had to cancel hundreds of millions of dollars worth of development spending because of it and it disrupts the trade in resources from Mali.
Mali doesn't produce uranium (they are still in the prospecting phase) and conflict in Mali only hurts our ability to trade for their gold and cotton as it threatens both industries. The US interest in Mali though was / is largely agricultural. When it comes to resources, peace is pretty much always more economically preferable to conflict. Also, the Muslims in Mali are not Wahabists.
to all ::::::::: thanks for so many comments and for the discussions; here is an interesting article- ``````````` Timbuktu Mayor: Mali Rebels Torched Library of Ancient ManuscriptsBy Luke Harding, Guardian UK 28 January 13 Fleeing Islamist insurgents burnt two buildings containing priceless books as French-led troops approached, says mayor. slamist insurgents retreating from Timbuktu set fire to a library containing thousands of priceless historic manuscripts, according to the Saharan town's mayor, in an incident he described as a "devastating blow" to world heritage. Hallé Ousmani Cissé told the Guardian that al-Qaida-allied fighters on Saturday torched two buildings that held the manuscripts, some of which dated back to the 13th century. They also burned down the town hall, the governor's office and an MP's residence, and shot dead a man who was celebrating the arrival of the French military. French troops and the Malian army reached the gates of Timbuktu on Saturday and secured the town's airport. But they appear to have got there too late to rescue the leather-bound manuscripts that were a unique record of sub-Saharan Africa's rich medieval history. The rebels attacked the airport on Sunday, the mayor said. "It's true. They have burned the manuscripts," Cissé said in a phone interview from Mali's capital, Bamako. "They also burned down several buildings. There was one guy who was celebrating in the street and they killed him." He added: "This is terrible news. The manuscripts were a part not only of Mali's heritage but the world's heritage. By destroying them they threaten the world. We have to kill all of the rebels in the north." On Monday French army officers said French-led forces had entered Timbuktu and secured the town without a shot being fired. A team of French paratroopers crept into the town by moonlight, advancing from the airport, they said. Residents took to the streets to celebrate. The manuscripts were held in two separate locations: an ageing library and a new South African-funded research centre, the Ahmad Babu Institute, less than a mile away. Completed in 2009 and named after a 17th-century Timbuktu scholar, the centre used state-of-the-art techniques to study and conserve the crumbling scrolls. Both buildings were burned down, according to the mayor, who said the information came from an informer who had just left the town. Asked whether any of the manuscripts might have survived, Cissé replied: "I don't know." The manuscripts had survived for centuries in Timbuktu, on the remote south-west fringe of the Sahara desert. They were hidden in wooden trunks, buried in boxes under the sand and in caves. When French colonial rule ended in 1960, Timbuktu residents held preserved manuscripts in 60-80 private libraries. The vast majority of the texts were written in Arabic. A few were in African languages, such as Songhai, Tamashek and Bambara. There was even one in Hebrew. They covered a diverse range of topics including astronomy, poetry, music, medicine and women's rights. The oldest dated from 1204. Seydou Traoré, who has worked at the Ahmed Baba Institute since 2003, and fled shortly before the rebels arrived, said only a fraction of the manuscripts had been digitised. "They cover geography, history and religion. We had one in Turkish. We don't know what it said." He said the manuscripts were important because they exploded the myth that "black Africa" had only an oral history. "You just need to look at the manuscripts to realise how wrong this is." Some of the most fascinating scrolls included an ancient history of west Africa, the Tarikh al-Soudan, letters of recommendation for the intrepid 19th-century German explorer Heinrich Barth, and a text dealing with erectile dysfunction. A large number dated from Timbuktu's intellectual heyday in the 14th and 15th centuries, Traoré said. By the late 1500s the town, north of the Niger river, was a wealthy and successful trading centre, attracting scholars and curious travellers from across the Middle East. Some brought books to sell. Typically, manuscripts were not numbered, Traoré said, but repeated the last word of a previous page on each new one. Scholars had painstakingly numbered several of the manuscripts, but not all, under the direction of an international team of experts. Mali government forces that had been guarding Timbuktu left the town in late March, as Islamist fighters advanced rapidly across the north. Fighters from al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) - the group responsible for the attack on the Algerian gas facility - then swept in and seized the town, pushing out rival militia groups including secular Tuareg nationalists. Traoré told the Guardian that he decided to leave Timbuktu in January 2012 amid ominous reports of shootings in the area, and after the kidnapping of three European tourists from a Timbuktu hotel. A fourth tourist, a German, resisted and was shot dead. Months later AQIM arrived, he said. Four or five rebels had been sleeping in the institute, which had comparatively luxurious facilities for staff, he said. As well as the manuscripts, the fighters destroyed almost all of the 333 Sufi shrines dotted around Timbuktu, believing them to be idolatrous. They smashed a civic statue of a man sitting on a winged horse. "They were the masters of the place," Traoré said. Other residents who fled Timbuktu said the fighters adorned the town with their black flag. Written on it in Arabic were the words "God is great". The rebels enforced their own brutal and arbitrary version of Islam, residents said, with offenders flogged for talking to women and other supposed crimes. The floggings took place in the square outside the 15th-century Sankoré mosque, a Unesco world heritage site. "They weren't religious men. They were criminals," said Maha Madu, a Timbuktu boatman, now in the Niger river town of Mopti. Madu said the fighters grew enraged if residents wore trousers down to their ankles, which they believed to be western and decadent. He alleged that some fighters kidnapped and raped local women, keeping them as virtual sex slaves. "They were hypocrites. They told us they couldn't smoke. But they smoked themselves," he said. The rebels took several other towns south of Timbuktu, he said, including nearby Diré. If the rebels spotted a boat flying the Malian national flag, they ripped the flag off and replaced it with their own black one, he said. The precise fate of the manuscripts was difficult to verify. All phone communication with Timbuktu was cut off. The town was said to be without electricity, water or fuel. According to Traoré, who was in contact with friends there until two weeks ago, many of the rebels left town following France's military intervention. He added: "My friend [in Timbuktu] told me they were diminishing in number. He doesn't know where they went. But he said they were trying to hide their cars by painting and disguising them with mud." The recapture of Timbuktu is another success for the French military, which has now secured two out of three of Mali's key rebel-held sites, including the city of Gao on Saturday. The French have yet to reach the third, Kidal. Local Tuareg militia leaders said on Monday they had taken control of Kidal after the abrupt departure of the Islamist fighters who ran the town. more later; vlad
to all :::::::::: her is a very timely article ;; ~~~~~~~ The ICC, NATO and Mali 29.01.2013 The International Criminal Court at The Hague, Netherlands, has decided to open a case to try war crimes in Mali, supposedly committed in the last year since rebel groups broke through Government forces in the North of the country. Let us tests the "independence" of this "court". Remember when Slobodan Milosevic was kidnapped illegally against every fibre of international, Federal Yugoslav and the Republic of Serbia's laws, was flown to the Hague, held captive without any due legal process (which would have released him as an illegal detainee); then pronounced guilty by the Chief Prosecutor Carla del Ponte before the trial began and held in illegal captivity until his death conveniently ended the process before he could become embarrassing? Did the ICC try the Albanian mafia criminals from Kosovo who were sawing off the heads of Serbian bank employees when they were screaming for their lives, then walking around grinning holding the head or throwing parts of human skulls at each other? Did the ICC try the Kosovo Albanian mafia engaging in trafficking of organs? Did the ICC try the Kosovo Albanian mafia selling girls into prostitution rings in Italy? Did the ICC try NATO for war crimes in Iraq? Did the ICC try NATO for leaving vast swathes of Iraqi territory uninhabitable, poisoned with Depleted Uranium, leaving hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children physically and mentally handicapped? Did the ICC try NATO in general and the FUKUS Axis (France, UK, US) in particular for war crimes in Libya, targeting the country's water supply "to break their backs" and then destroying the factory which made the pipes so that it could not be repaired? Did the ICC try the terrorist scourge aided, abetted, trained, equipped and financed by the same FUKUS Axis (present in Benghazi since late 2011), for "murder; mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; intentionally directing attacks against protected objects; the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court; pillaging; and rape"? No? Why these are the precise words of ICC Chief Prosecutor for Mali, Fatou Bensouda. So the conclusion is, the ICC is not an independent organism as it claims to be, it is a political monster controlled by NATO in general and the FUKUS Axis in particular, a kangaroo court with zero credibility, a carbuncle on the face of international law and a farce. Speaking of Mali, who is the ICC going to prosecute, the Jihadis or the Malian Armed Forces which themselves committed human rights atrocities? Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey Pravda.Ru more later; vlad
They do believe in Angels singing and every Muslim I have ever known loves music and dance and poetry. Fundis are Fundis under any banner Christian, Muslim or Jew ..Fundis are the same family .
MALI IS NOT MIDDLE EAST Mali is NO WHERE NEAR THE MIDDLE EAST... Just Cuz they have Sand, and are Muslims does NOT MAKE THEM in the GOD (*)(*)(*)(*) MIDDLE EAST....
The same thing happened in Iraq .................and many of those antiquities have been recovered and many are known to be in the hands of wealthy collectors.
I have heard that the Tuareg are being targeted by the 'Military' ..........it is almost impossible to know what is going on there though.
to allegorical :::: it is not impossible to understand the principals of "destabilization". if the whole of north africa is made into an anarchial area, without any truely organized strong government, it is easy to understand that there is nothing but chaos. vlad
I don't think it is Chaos to those who have lived there for thousands of years. From what I have come to understand. The Gov was fragile ..The Tuareg came back from Libya well Armed. The Gov sent the Army to sort them in fear of problems which a powerful Tuareg might cause. Under equiped the Army were hurt. Angry the Military Leaders went to have it out with the Gov', no one is sure if the coup was intended or just happened, it is suspected it was the latter. But at the same time the Algerian Outlaws from the 90s were being joined by other foreign 'Islamists' and they usurped the coup. And there are so many Groups and Tribes and Groups within Groups And as well as Western concerns there are drugs and arms and all sorts of trade routes It is only foreigners who make Chaos though
to alegorical :::::::: chaos is chaos; chaos in a geopolitical area is still chaos, most of all for the population of that same geopolitical area. i would like to discuss this in greater detail, but i am using a commuter in a public library and soon it turns into a pumpkin. more later; vlad
to alegorical and all :::::::::::: here is an interesting article about how the mali situation is growing larger. ~~~~~~~~ US deploys troops, drones to Niger By Barry Grey 23 February 2013 President Barack Obama on Friday officially notified the US Congress that he had deployed “approximately” 100 US troops to the western African nation of Niger. In a perfunctory, six-sentence letter to House Speaker John Boehner and Senator Patrick Leahy, president pro-tem of the Senate, Obama said the final 40 troops had arrived on Wednesday to “provide support for intelligence collection” and “facilitate intelligence sharing with French forces conducting operations in Mali, and with other partners in the region.” The only other justification for dispatching the military force, beyond the vague talk of intelligence gathering, was “furtherance of US national security interests.” In the letter, Obama said he was notifying Congress pursuant to his powers as commander in chief and chief executive, and in accordance with the requirements of the 1973 War Powers Resolution, a law intended to bar the president from committing military forces without the consent of Congress. The War Powers Resolution states that the president can send troops into action abroad only with the authorization of Congress or in case of “a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.” It requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing forces and forbids them from remaining for more than 60 days without congressional sanction. The reality behind Obama’s cynical and deceitful letter is the initiation of an open-ended and far-reaching US military intervention in northern Africa. The action announced Friday by Obama marks a major escalation of the drive by the United States and the other imperialist powers to recolonize the continent and gain direct control of its rich storehouse of strategic natural resources. The use of drones underscores the criminal character of the operation in Niger. They will be used to terrorize the African population and summarily murder all those identified by the Pentagon and the CIA as opponents of Washington’s drive to conquer and subjugate the continent. This predatory drive is concealed behind the all-purpose pretext, as part of the “war on terror,” of combating Al Qaeda-linked Islamist militias operating in Mali and other parts of the Sahara region. The past two years have already seen the US-led war for regime-change in Libya, the US- and NATO-backed sectarian civil war in Syria, and last month’s US-backed French invasion of Niger’s neighbor to the west, Mali. The establishment of a US military base of operations in Niger now lays bare the real significance of the 2011 war against Libya, carried out under the pretense of protecting civilians and defending human rights, and the calculated decision to murder Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. All of the operations that have followed the Libyan atrocity were already in the works, as are the even more bloody predations to come. The real aim behind the introduction of US troops into Niger is to assert American domination of northwest Africa, check French imperialist ambitions in the region, and counter the growing influence of China. Obama’s claim in his letter to Congress that the Niger government had consented to the US deployment means little, since all of the bourgeois regimes in the region function as stooges of US imperialism and the former colonial powers of Europe. While Obama did not refer to drones in his letter, unnamed Pentagon officials told media outlets on Friday that drone aircraft had already been sent to the impoverished country, with the “first wave” including two Raptor surveillance drones. They said 250 to 300 military personnel, including remote pilots and security and maintenance crews, would eventually be deployed. ABC News cited US officials as saying Washington had already begun flying Predator drones over Mali as part of US military support for the French invasion, which also includes airlifting French and allied African troops and refueling French military aircraft that have bombed cities and towns controlled by Islamist insurgents and Tuareg separatists. In addition, as part of the Mali operation, US Special Forces have been sent to Niger, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Senegal, Togo and Ghana. The current deployment in Niger will reportedly be based in Niamey, the capital, but may be moved to the northern town of Agadez. While Obama sought in his letter to Congress to give the impression that the deployment will be limited in time and scope and will involve only surveillance drones, what has been set in motion is an expanding operation that will inevitably involve the use of armed drones to extend the administration’s assassination program from Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia into northern Africa. ABC News reported that US Africa Command had “developed a plan a few weeks ago that proposed setting up a base in Niger to enable long-term surveillance operations in western Africa.” It cited a government official as saying it was “possible that the new operations could morph into the separate concept proposed by African Command.” The Washington Post quoted a US defense official, who said, “I think it’s safe to say the number [of US troops] will probably grow.” It cited other officials who said the administration “had not ruled out arming the Predators with missiles in the future.” For weeks, the US press has carried reports of plans by the Obama administration to extend its drone assassination program into northern Africa. At the end of January it was reported that the US had secured an agreement with the government of Niger to establish a US military base in the country. The Guardian reported Friday that there are “no constraints to military-to-military cooperation” within that agreement. Earlier in January, following a hostage siege carried out by Al Qaeda of the Islamic Maghreb at a gas facility in Algeria, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta implicitly threatened to use drone strikes against alleged terrorists in northern Africa. “We have a responsibility to go after Al Qaeda wherever they are,” Panetta stated, adding that the US was “going after” it in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia—all the scenes of continuous drone missile strikes—and would act to deny Al Qaeda a “a base for operations in North Africa and Mali.” The Wall Street Journal wrote of an “open-ended” campaign against militants in north and west Africa, and a US State Department official warned that the offensive in Mali “could take years” and was only “the first phase.” The Journal published a front-page article two weeks ago headlined “Push to Extend US ‘Kill List.’” The article reported discussions within the Obama administration over extending its drone assassination program to Algeria and other countries in the Sahara and northwest Africa. The US military intervention in Niger contains the seeds of a far wider conflict. The nomadic Tuareg population, which has been waging intermittent struggles against the central government in Mali for decades, exists as well to the east in Niger. The introduction of US troops and drones has the potential of spreading the Tuareg revolt and sparking an ethnic-based transnational civil war. And as diplomatic cables from US diplomats in Niamey disclosed by WikiLeaks have made clear, China’s economic activities in the region have been a focus of US concern. One such cable warned, “China is building a major portfolio in Niger’s resource sectors and will probably replace France as Niger’s top foreign investor…” The US move into Niger will further inflame relations between the US and the world’s second largest economic power, already frayed as a result of US provocations carried out as part of Obama’s “pivot to Asia.” ~~~~~~~~~~~ vlad
Extremists snatched lil' kids from schools to fight... Mali radicals recruited child soldiers at schools Feb 23,`13 -- The radical Islamic fighters showed up at Mohamed Salia's Quranic school, armed with weapons and demanding to address his students.
