Mars triple feature: Three spacecraft to arrive at the red planet this month, sign of new era of space exploration https://www.nbcnews.com/science/spa...-u-s-spacecraft-n1257126?cid=eml_nbn_20210209 Exciting..
Launched by 3 different countries! Plus, even more countries than that are directly involved, as the NASA Perseverance mission includes significant instruments contributed by Norway, Spain and France. And, the UAE probe included the help of the University of Colorado at Boulder. Plus, the long lived UAE space program works with South Korea, though I don't know if South Korea had a direct role in this mission. I really like the level of collaboration - which is far more broad than just the ISS. Plus it seems like data gathered on these missions as well as by the various telescopes, etc. are being broadly shared.
absolutely!!! I too love the international collaboration. So looking forward to the data as it comes in.
This new map of ice on Mars could guide future astronauts | Space I didn't know there ws ice on Mars and I still find it hard to believe. You have to wonder how many generations ago people would find it impossible to craete such a task. Do you remember when man walked on the moon? Neil Armstrong said "That's one small step for man, One giant leap for mankind." You have to wonder what they'll say when they walk on Mars.
Manned missions will accomplish more science than 100 unmanned probes. And we will never sent 100 unmanned probes to Mars.
This is just plain false. Science isn't even the point of sending humans to Mars. The point of sending humans to Mars is almost 100% to simply figure out how to send humans to Mars. These are technology missions along with answering questions about humans in space - response to long term absence of gravity, toleration of radiation, etc.
Really? Simple comparison. Soil and rock samples. How much more soil and rock samples were returned to Earth by the Apollo missions that has been returned by unmanned probes? To be fair, I'll multiply the unmanned sample returns TEN TIMES. The Apollo missions still returned more than ONE HUNDRED TIMES the weight and volume of lunar soil and rocks. https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/revisiting-soviet-lunar-sample-return-missions The Soviets returned .5 lbs. of samples. Multiply that by 10 and it amounts to 5 lbs. of samples. Multiply that by 3 Yet the Apollo missions returned 842 lbs. of lunar samples. Say you have 100 successful unmanned missions that EACH return .5 lbs. of samples. That amounts to 50 lbs. of samples. Against 842 lbs. of six manned missions. That is still more than 16 times more productive for the manned missions.
It does NOT require humans to bring back samples. The thing is, science has not considered that the most important next step in science. And, today there ARE unmanned mission plans for bringing back samples from Mars, aseroids, etc. I'd also point out that the samples brough back by Apollo have not received much in the way of serious examination. The number of pounds of rock is really not the issue for science. Your "pounds of rock" thing just doesn't have much to do with science. Today, we're building a nuclear powered quadcopter that will be examining different locations on Saturn's moon, Titan. That mission needs NO signiicant new technology. That mission will cost $1B. Putting a man on Mars is estimated at $500B, with requirements for technology that we don't have.
My father was an aerospace engineer involved with the Viking Lander (s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_program After those successes there were lots of failures. One of the "detection of life" experiments demonstrated a positive, and still unexplained. Remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_to_Eden And remember the perchlorate we know about today. https://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic-perchlorate-chemicals.html Toxic Mars: Astronauts Must Deal with Perchlorate on the Red PlanetThe pervading carpet of perchlorate chemicals found on Mars may boost the chances that microbial life exists on the Red Planet — but perchlorates are also perilous to the health of future crews destined to explore that way-off world. Perchlorates are reactive chemicals first detected in arctic Martian soil by NASA's Phoenix lander that plopped down on Mars over five years ago in May 2008. It is likely both of NASA's Viking Mars landers in 1976 measured signatures of perchlorates, in the form of chlorinated hydrocarbons. Other U.S. Mars robots — the Sojourner, Spirit and Opportunity — detected elemental chlorine. Moreover, orbital measurements taken by the Mars Odyssey spacecraft show that chlorine is globally distributed. . Mars Is Toxic. Might dissolve space suits too. Mars "welcome"? Moi Stop Mars! Best Invasion Movie ever
kl Those estimates are only from organizations dead set against putting a manned mission on Mars. Most of the serious estimates for putting a four man mission on Mars for a time on the planet of a year and a half are about 50-70 billion dollars. The comparison of sample sizes is the only one I can easily quantify to compare manned vs. unmanned. Might as well argue the value of onsite analysis vs analyzing samples a couple of years later after the samples have been in an artificial environment during the flight back to Earth.
NASA has always been working on putting humans in space. So, suggesting their estimates are off because they don't want to do it hits me as ridiculous. You're accusing them of lying for some reason that can't even be described. And, I've NEVER known their estimates to be high. As for analysis, humans on Mars or the Moon doesn't provide a big win. And, nothing in space is as fast as a couple of years. Serious analysis of samples will happen on Earth, where we have the equipment for it. Analysis performed by landers can be done by robotics as is being done today. How much of each (on Earth or somewhere else) is a matter of cost vs. an understanding of what the reward might be. It's exciting that we have samples from an asteroid. I'm still WILDLY in favor of 500 science missions vs one trip to Mars with humans aboard. I'm not opposed to astronauts. But, I think the next steps should involve space based construction. We can't keep expecting complete construction on Earth followed by a rocket massive enough to lift what we built into space. That's the method that has been so disasterous for the James Webb telescope. The hugely expensive delays have centered on the problems of the rigors of launch and the folding necessary to fit a rocket. And, once launched there isn't any opportunity to fix anything that went wrong. If it doesn't work, it's a $10B piece of space garbage. In the near future it's going to be more cost effective and less risky to launch parts and raw material into space and assemble stuff there.
I think we too easily write off the incredible difficulty of any mission to moons and other planets - even if trying to keep humans alive is not part of the mission. Kudos to your father!
More on my father and Viking Landers detection of life automated experiments here http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/my-father.564690/ Add YOUR father too, please. Born in Czarist Russia, his last biology class was in Russia (He believed more virile men had sons. And he had two) Now as a communications engineer (you only have so much electricity to broadcast what data, engineering) he never had to deal with biology in his career nor engineering education in Germany (circa 1923) then France (1925 + +) . It took a hard day to update him on chromosomes, common "threads" of life and so messy compared to electronics engineering. My best friend and I share stories about having an engineer as a father. Although his was Civil Engineering the fathering brain apparently worked similarly. I thought my friend how to get into Medical School as Mexican - American. He said, "But, I don't speak Spanish". I said, "The Liberals don't care." Today he does speak Spanish and serves the poorest! C'est la vie. Please check out linked thread & share And do check out the best, Invasion from Mars flick banned in England Not related to the radio broadcast Thread in Member Casual Chat "My Father"
I seem to be blocked from messaging @WillReadmore Intended message What is an E E please Engineer ? Electronics engineer? My friend & I are Biologist thinking with engineer fathers Our "style" of Rx is so similar while not the "team" approach Example Asthma #1 - Water. WATER. So much water you feel like your kidneys are gonna bust My friend and I never discussing advised similarly Hint: Lungers Hate water and textbook advocacy of water while , , , remains ignored unless IV! Blocking Conversation Is A Terrible thing To Do! And too
2) Ignoring the obvious. That there will never be 500 unmanned missions to Mars. 2b) Ignoring the other obvious, that a major reason unmanned missions to Mars are supported is because of the idea that they are precursors to manned missions. 1) NASA is not one monolithic organization that speaks with one and only one voice. It is a large group of smaller organizations and regional centers that each have their own agendas and made up of people with their own personal goals.
I have NO idea how anyone who doesn't have special board privleges could have someone blocked from posting. Blelive me, I don't! And, I don't block anyone from posting to me - like, no "ignore" or whatever. There is nobody on this board who couldn't correct or add to what I post, and ignoring that is just stupid. EE - Electrical Engineer. Electronics Engineer is more on the practical side. These days even the purely practical can require significant education/training, so don't downplay that.
Exactly!! Those 500 missions can be scattered all over our solar system, designed to study all sorts of phenomena. The one mission to Mars is just one mission to just one destination, and it is almost purely oriented to keeping a small number of humans alive. I totally disagree. There is a TON to learn about Mars and every other of our planets, moons and other minor bodies. Absolutely. But, I'm not sure why you are mentioning this fact. I'd point out that a lot of what NASA supports is required by law passed by congress. So, it's not even the case that NASA gets to determine whether a human mission to the Moon or Mars is the next important goal in our space exploration future. So, we are now committed to $11.5 BILLION for the SLS rocket and there is only 1 customer for SLS - Artemis and no promise of there ever being another customer. But, NASA is not allowed to work with SpaceX and others to develop a more cost effective progression - even though Musk states that he is fully committed to sending humans to Mars!!! This is NOT the fault of NASA, obviously. They are bound by the desires of congressmen. What do YOU think the congressmen from Alabama would say about cutting this $11 BILLION dollar boondoggle in Huntsville?
~ All the Co2 is not worth it. Stop all space exploration until a solar/wind power rocketship is developed. Save Planet Earth First !
